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 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 05:15 pm
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lifl2003
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I just returned from Gettysburg NP this past weekend.  My kids (11 and 9) and I biked the battlefield and had a great time!!

I higly recommend bringing a bike and avoiding the car. You save gas and get a great workout while feeling right on top of the field.

My question is about collecting CW memorabilia.  My 11 year old son bought some spent rounds at a local store off the Emmitsburg Rd.  The storekeeper advertised that the rounds had been recovered from the "Gettysburg area." He also had rounds recovered from the "Virginia area."  The clerk vouched for their authenticity. They were selling for $9 a piece.

I know that relic hunting is prohibited at National Parks so my question is what is the chance that these "recovered rounds' are authentic?

Being new I apologize in advance if this topic has been broached before.  Whether they are from GB or not my son loved them and they have helped to increase his interest in the US CW as well as history itself which makes me very happy.

Thanks

Mike



 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 05:59 pm
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ole
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It would be nearly impossible to verify the origin of ball, although it might be possible. The NPS, having collected a ball or a cluster of them and analyzing whatever story they have to tell, would concievably have little use for a warehouse full of them. Do you suppose they wholesale them to dealers?

ole



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 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:25 pm
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calcav1
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No Ole, the Park Service does NOT sell artifacts.

Tom



 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:31 pm
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Johan Steele
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$9 a bullet... $7.95 for 25 new, drop them in the mud for a winter and sell at $9 per. CW relic sales has really taken off in the past few years. Maybe I'm just too cynical.

That said I was able to purchase a couple minnies scavenged from the Hatchie Battlefield in the 60's. Paid $15 shipped to me. For all I know they were forgeries but the idea that they were from a battlefield where both my and my Captain had ancestors wounded means something.



 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 10:05 pm
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lifl2003
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Thanks for all the replies guys.  I have always been very skeptical about alot of the authenticity of memorobilia.  Escpecially the EBAY stuff.  Thats why I have not gotten into collecting.

I feel the same way as Johan Steele.  However I was so happy to see my son enjoying something that is important to me even if there is the chance that they are not real.  ;)

Mike



 Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 11:51 pm
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pamc153PA
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lifl2003,

When my second-grader nephew showed interest in the Civil War after a trip to Gettysburg with his parents, I bought him a couple kid level books, but what he liked best were the minies I bought at a store right on the square in Gettysburg. Real or not, they were something solid from a war that's long gone and hard to imagine if you're a kid, and they got and hopefully will keep him interested until he's old enough for me to take him out walking the battlefield. Whatever works to hook 'em--I plan to do the same with my five-year old son!

pamc



 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 12:41 am
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CleburneFan
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Union and Confederates forces fought all along the retreat from Gettysburg to the Potomac. Much of the territory covered in the various retreat routes and Union pursuit routes plus places where skirmishes and full-fledged battles took place is not not enclosed in national parks.

It is possible that the minie shells are authentic, but maybe just having a reasonable reproduction is good enough to be satisfying for a beginning collector or someone with a budding interest in the Civil War. That said, I would have tried to get the store owner to be more definite about EXACTLY where he found the shells.

A couple of years ago I saw a fascinating show on the History Channel about the huge business and trade in counterfeit historic relics. Some relics are incredibly well done. No wonder amateur collectors get burned. You'd have to be an authority on that specific relic and even then, according to the show, the so-called experts can and do get fooled.

Last edited on Wed Jun 25th, 2008 12:42 am by CleburneFan



 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 01:06 am
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Dixie Girl
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my little brother has started to show interest in the Civil War. i think i have lectured him on it enough, and talked to him about all the guns, and the generals that he decided that it wasnt just a boring subject that he would want to sleep through in school. ive learned to tell him stuff that a third grader would understand and ive have few books that are for a elementary school aged child. im slowly trying to get him interested in other history like WWI, WWII, Vietnam and other wars. i guess since i got interested in history at his age im hoping that he will to.



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War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson


 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 02:01 am
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Johan Steele
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Archambault, Alan H., Black Soldiers in the Civil War, Bellerphon Books, 1995.

Archambault, Alan H., The Blue & Gray Civil War Mirth & Re-enacting, Bellerphon Books, 2001.

Archambault, Alan H., Billy Yank The Union Soldier in the Civil War, Bellerophon Books, 1995. Archambault, Alan H.,Children in the Civil War , Bellerphon Books, 2000.

Archambault, Alan H., Johnny Reb The Confederate Soldier in the Civil War, Bellerphon Books, 1994.

Archambault, Alan H., The Sketchbook of the Union Infantryman, Thomas Publications, 1999.

Archambault, Alan H., Women soldiers of the Union Army  in the Civil War, Bellerphon Books, 1998.

 

These area few books that are pretty good for the kids, informative and not too in depth, well worth the $5 a piece or so.



 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 05:51 am
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ole
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If $9.00 will make a kid blink, skip lunch. It's worth every penny.

ole



 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 01:27 pm
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j harold 587
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If you want to really dig into collecting a good place to start would be

civilwarfakebusters.com. This site has many long time collectors, diggers and dealers who share their knowledge and expierence at no cost just to help keep the scam artist out of the hobby.

If the dealer had them marked as Virginia and Gettysbug area it was probably a legitimate listing.

There are many good dealers in the Berg. Horse Soldier, Fields of Glory, and Union Drummer Boy just to name a few.

Biking the field is a real joy. Hope you were able to take in some of the living history presentations. Those seem to help youngsters embrace a real appreciation of what real pople were doing at a time in history not just dates and major events.  



 Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 07:12 pm
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TimK
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I'm with ole. Fake or real, 9 bucks or 90 bucks - if it creates interest, in the long run it will be worth it.



 Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 04:20 pm
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When I work the reenactments around here in Southern California the booths that get the kids attention is first the one that sells the kepis and the plastic swords,  then they head for the  relic booth run by a friend of mine.  He stocks lots of mini balls for these events as the kids buy them like crazy.  They love them. 

I agree with Ole .  9 dollars is cheap if it gets the kid interested in learning about something. 

Susan



 Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 07:05 am
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cklarson
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Dear Folks,

Would like to comment both on the artifacts and the kids.

RE: artifacts. Guess I was lucky that ca. 1985 when I visited Charleston, I bought a bullet for about $ .25 and it's now worth $9? Also the US belt buckle I bought for about $25 is now worth $350 or so, per Antiques Roadshow. As good as bullets though are your local dealers who might turn up Indian arrowheads--have one of those too, from WI.

RE: kids. I am a big fan of Supernanny, Jo Frost, even though I don't have children, but I used to do management training. Like in management, you find "the fish rots from the head down." The problem with the kids is usually really with the parents--mostly they don't know how to discipline their children who then become wild. This week Jo Frost, who's brilliant, dealt with 2 sisters, 11 and 13 or so, who had really turned almost violent toward each other and their mother. After Jo taught the mother how to discipline them (for older children, it's the "reflection couch" rather than the "naughty spot"), what the problem also turned out to be was, to my mind, that these teenagers were just down right bored to death, so they turned their frustration into anger toward each other and their mother whose relationship to them previously was mostly to constantly tell them what not to do, with little other conversation. Anyway, Jo got the girls to make an "English garden" on their deck. Well, the girls loved it; they were proud of themselves for creating colorful flower pots and a garden, and had worked nicely and cheerfully together.

What I'm saying is that it's really good to see parents here talking about getting their kids interested in the CW. What I've seen is that between ages 7 and 14 kids need things that are tangible and fairly easy to comprehend. For me it was also the Civil War, my interest piqued by stories of girl slaves escaping via the Underground RR and cavalry, etc., at a time that the Civil Rights movement was also beginning. So both seemed to go together. And wars, as in just battles, are easy to comprehend--there are winners and losers, heroes on both sides, and often the best of humanity is brought out, as well as the worst. I think we've lost this tangibleness in becoming an urban nation. I will never forget the look of sheer adoration I saw on the face of a 7 year old boy on PBS's "Frontier House" as his father taught him how to fish. But on Supernanny there are scenes where 7 year olds beg their parents to play with them and they refuse (which is pointed out strongly by Supernanny). So hooray for our parents and their kids!! And don't dismiss girls' interest--teach them how to cook over a camp fire, ride horses, first aid. It's the things we learn as kids that we remember the most in life.

Congrats to the parents! Hope I haven't "shared" too much.

CKL



 Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 12:05 pm
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lifl2003
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Ck,

Nice post. Don't worry, you did not "share" too much. 

I am so glad that I posted this inquiry as I am new to the forum and am very happy with all the fantastic responses.;)

It's nice to have a place to discuss of the CW or TWBTS.  I look foward to many post and discussions.

Thanks,

Mike



 Posted: Sat Jun 28th, 2008 05:47 am
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cklarson
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Dear Mike et al.,

Thanks for the thanks. I aim to please.

My "sharing" verb was adopted from a friend who severely broke her ankle and left a long message describing her condition on her office phone tape while she was out on disability. Her boss told her he thought she had "shared" too much--which cracked me up. But it's a good verb, like with "interesting" -- it can cover many tricky scenarios.

After reading your reply, the obvious dawned on me: that I should recommend my vry favorite childhood book that is still in print: Harold Keith's Rifles for Watie -- I think it's rated for 9-12 year olds. It was a Newberry Medal winner. Part of its appeal is that it covers accurately the Trans Mississippi, particularly the split within the Cherokee tribe. Stand Watie was their guerrilla leader.

But I have also always loved horses and the best author is Marguerite Henry, again, still in print: Justin Morgan Had a Horse (set in colonial VT), King of the Wind (Morocco), Black Gold (thoroughbred racing), Misty of Chincoteague (MD), Born to Trot (Hambiltonian harness race). Great books and the original hard backs had extraordinary color plate illustrations.

A little off track recommendation also is: Witch of Blackbird Pond, based on 17th cent. events in Wethersfield, CT, now a suburb of Hartford (where Harriet Beecher Stowe and Mark Twains homes are) -- a historic colonial town that's better than Williamsburg (and no huge fees), 100+ colonial dwellngs plus 2 17th cent. ones (with a witch story), a museum, fabulous colonial brick church, and 2 historic tour houses (Silas Deane, minister to France).

So that's some more history for the kids.

CKL



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 Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:58 am
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cklarson
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Dear Bama46,

Sorry, I somewhat miswrote but my gist is not inaccurate. You're correct Stand Watie was commissioned a BG in the CSA and headed the Cherokee Confederate Indian forces, engaging in 18 major battles and skirmishes in and outside of Indian Territory.

However as I remember, Rifles for Watie, focuses on Watie's raids on Union supply lines, which gave me an early impression that his were not regular army troops which is how I erred.

From http://www.civilwarhome.com:

" In addition, his men were engaged in a multitude of smaller skirmishes and meeting engagements in Indian Territory and neighboring states.  Because of his wide-ranging raids behind Union lines, Watie tied down thousands of Federal troops that were badly needed in the East."

CKL



 Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 03:08 pm
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ole
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Have to agree with Bama, CKL. Stand Watie was no more a guerilla than was NB Forrest and JS Mosby. His job was also to tie up Federal troops with raids. Guerillas, in my understanding, might raid Federal installations, but might as often carry their hostility to civilians.

ole



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