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 Posted: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 09:33 pm
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Captain Crow
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Okay here is the massive pile of pics I promised to post:

First Vicksburg battlefield and Town including the Old County Courthouse museum, Cairo museum, and of course the Battlefield cemetary.

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/?action=view&current=01db8a04.pbw
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/?action=view&current=1a0515ba.pbw
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/?action=view&current=c83c2586.pbw
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/?action=view&current=8f1fefef.pbw
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/?action=view&current=0a4b1489.pbw

Grand Gulf  including the Mississippi Nuclear tree hanging death spiders.

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/Grand%20Gulf/?action=view&current=b8ee79c2.pbw

Raymond Battlefield Park.

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/Grand%20Gulf/Raymond%20Battlefield%20Park/?action=view&current=13545367.pbw

Confederate dead at Raymond

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/Grand%20Gulf/Raymond%20Battlefield%20Park/Confederate%20dead%20at%20Raymond/?action=view&current=458a841b.pbw

crossroads at Champion hill and Big Black river bridge

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/Champion%20Hill%20and%20big%20black%20River%20bridge/?action=view&current=a9d54b7c.pbw

the Soldiers Rest Confederate cemetary at vicksburg

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z116/jackrox_2007/siege%20of%20Vicksburg/Soldiers%20Rest/?action=view&current=282e6342.pbw

I apologize for the many ommissions of important places such as Grant's canal, port Gibson, and of course the Champion Hill battlesite. I will try to focus on these things next trip. In the mean time I hope some of  these pics are okay.







 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 12:33 am
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Wrap10
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Nice pictures, Jack. Vicksburg is a very beautiful park. Difficult to imagine the contrast between what it looks like now and what it must have looked like during the siege.

Can't say as I care for those spiders down by Grand Gulf. Had the Rebs unleashed a few of those varmints in 1863, they might have won the campaign. ;)

Perry



 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 01:47 am
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Captain Crow
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Wrap10 wrote: Nice pictures, Jack. Vicksburg is a very beautiful park. Difficult to imagine the contrast between what it looks like now and what it must have looked like during the siege.

Can't say as I care for those spiders down by Grand Gulf. Had the Rebs unleashed a few of those varmints in 1863, they might have won the campaign. ;)

Perry
They are having a bit of debate about clearing some of those trees and undergrowth right now. Local environmentalists and recreational users of the parks running trails want them to stay put because they provide shade and have become somewhat of a refuge for local wildlife. Historians and folks like us want the landscape returned to it's wartime condition. I think Possibly a compromise that at least clears some lines of sight on the battlefield but still preserves a large portion of the  foliage
is likely to be the result.
 As for the Mississppi Nuclear Tree hanging Death spiders...man that was just too creepy! they were everywhere! And quite large as well:shock:. I didn't notice them until I was in the middle of about 10 big webs! Turns out I accidentaly took the one path that didn't go right through one of them. Needless to say I took great pains to carefully retrace my steps all the way to my car. I think maybe the flooding they've had in that area recently must have brought them out. Either that or that power plant is leaking..........:shock:



 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 02:01 am
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CleburneFan
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Wow! I had no idea how beautiful the Vicksburg area is. Now I am really psyched to go see these campaign areas myself. I loved the views of the Mississippi River, the church, the statues and monuments. The Cairo I MUST see. It is so much bigger than I imagined. Those three cannon in front are intimidating.

I felt sad for how some of the buildings are overgrown with vines and shrubs. I hope they can be rescued. It was cool to see the Spanish moss hanging off some trees. We have that in Florida too...not so much in South Florida though.  We had lots of that at the University of Florida. At night Spanish moss seems haunted when it moves in the breeze.

I was trying to visualize how difficult it must have been to fight in that terrain. Surely it was even more rugged and overgrown than it is now.

Congratulations on the spectacular slide show. I wish I could read faster to get a better sense of what some of the plaques say. 



 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 02:11 am
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Captain Crow
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just click on any image and it will enlarge it. also if you look in the upper right hand corner after you clicked you see an option to view the album. this will allow you to take your time and actually be able to read the markers. I use the slideshows for a quick way to sample the pics without having to scroll through them one at a time...for those with ADD LOL!



 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 02:13 am
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Captain Crow
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Wrap10 wrote: Nice pictures, Jack. Vicksburg is a very beautiful park. Difficult to imagine the contrast between what it looks like now and what it must have looked like during the siege.

Can't say as I care for those spiders down by Grand Gulf. Had the Rebs unleashed a few of those varmints in 1863, they might have won the campaign. ;)

Perry
I found out what those spiders were......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephila_clavipes



 Posted: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008 11:57 pm
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pamc153PA
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Capt.,

That's it-- I've GOT to go! Do you mind if I use some of your pics, especially those of the town, church, etc., as propaganda to get my husband to agree to making Vicksburg part of next summer's vacation? I'll leave out the spiders, though.

Great pictures. I checked them out while my son was in the bathtub (my first time of peace and relative quiet today) and forgot he was in there--came out wrinkled like a raisin. You have a nice "eye" for photos, Civil War and otherwise!

Thanks for sharing them!

Pam



 Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 02:13 am
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Captain Crow
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pamc153PA wrote: Capt.,

That's it-- I've GOT to go! Do you mind if I use some of your pics, especially those of the town, church, etc., as propaganda to get my husband to agree to making Vicksburg part of next summer's vacation? I'll leave out the spiders, though.

Great pictures. I checked them out while my son was in the bathtub (my first time of peace and relative quiet today) and forgot he was in there--came out wrinkled like a raisin. You have a nice "eye" for photos, Civil War and otherwise!

Thanks for sharing them!

Pam
Thank you so much for the kind words! And yes of course you can use any of them you like to in order to get the Mr. to go to Vicksburg. It's really a pretty good 2 day stop to see everything but you could see the highlights of the main battlefield and the town in a day. Good luck!:D



 Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 08:47 pm
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TimK
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A little unsolicited advice - Vicksburg is best enjoyed in the spring and fall. The summer can be brutal.



 Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 09:10 pm
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Thanks, Tim. I'll keep that in mind! Unfortunately, I've never been farther south than Virginia, alas!

Pam



 Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 10:11 pm
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Captain Crow
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TimK wrote: A little unsolicited advice - Vicksburg is best enjoyed in the spring and fall. The summer can be brutal.usually that would be correct but this time I got really lucky. Temp stayed in the 80s since it rained 2-3 times a day(a local told me this was due to the tropcal storm situation.) The only real killer was the resultant humidity...whew! Every morning I would step out of my room and my glasses would instantly completely fog up. And this was continuous until they reached outside temperature-same with my camera lense as is evidenced by my fuzzy Grand Gulf pictures. I would say that Charleston was much worse last June. 90+% humidity and 90+ degrees every day I was there....I thought I was gonna stroke out:(. The trick to any deep south trip is a cooler full of bottled water carried in your car at all times. Go to a tour stop-chug a water-tour stop-water-etc. But really I think the best way is to follow TimK's advice...although I always seem to go places in the heart of the summer:D.



 Posted: Sun Aug 24th, 2008 11:18 pm
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Unfortunately, for me as a teacher, the summer is really the only time I have to really do trips right. I can't wait for the day I can do the swelteringly humid trips when it's not so sweltering or humid. . . that'll be a while yet. However, I keep telling myself, as I slog through the fields at Gettysburg in the late July heat, at least it's as realistic as I can get without a wool uniform and a heavy pack on my back!

Pam



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 12:54 am
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Captain Crow
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Gettysburg is as good as it gets IMO. I'm thinking 2010 hopefully will be my next trip there.



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 05:51 pm
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Thanks for sharing the pics. I've got to get down to some of the 'western campaign' battlefields. I've seen Gettysburg, Frederick, Manassas, Antietum, Petersburg (which still has evidence of the Union's caved-in tunnel), Richmond, most of the Shenandoah (in which Jackson swung his small, mobil army thru and around the mountains, hit the larger union forces at will, then disappeared into the hills again).
I've been to Appomattox, but that's about as far south (west) as I've gotten, at least as far as CW battlefields are concerned.
I'd always heard that the southern b'fields were not as well preserved as the northern ones, simply because for decades the south wanted to forget the bitter loss, but these pictures make me want to get down there.
Good work!



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 06:45 pm
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Gettysburg IS as good as it gets. I just got back from my fifth trip out there (only a 3 hr ride from where I live in south Jersey).

It improves every time I visit.The complete cyclorama painting of the battle (done some 20 yrs after the war) will be fully restored and open in Oct '08. They now have guides who do hour-long sessions on various parts of the battle- what Warren did when he realized Little Roundtop was unoccuppied, what Meade did when Sickles moved his troops, leaving the Union flank in the air....

All just great stuff. I thought I had a pretty good overall grasp of the battle but I learned more this time out than I had in all my previous visits and all the reading I'd done.

And anyone going out there, do NOT skip by the little diorama, down the street from Meade's HQ's. Its easy to overlook, but they have some 20,000 miniatures on a 50x20 paper mache scale model of the whole terrain, town and all. The detail and workmanship is astounding, and its tough to remain dry-eyed at the end of the presentation.

One thing I came away with from this latest trip is a new found respect for Meade. You'll recall he's barely shown in the movie, except for a brief scene in which he asks Hancock if they're on good ground. Here's a guy who got there some time after midnight, after JUST having taken over the AOP, with no real knowledge of the situation, other than the fact that the ANV had swooped down from the north and was already amassed. Yet he deployed his men efficiently, and even held the line despite Sickles' decision to move his troops AGAINST ORDERS, thereby leaving the flank exposed. By the time Meade rode out to ask Sickles just what the hell he was doing, the day 2 fighting had broken out and there was no time to get Sickles back where he belonged. Sickles' corp was smashed by McLaws moments later and rendered useless. So now Meade had another issue to contend with. Due to Sickels' insubordination, his western flank was momentarily cut off from what was supposed to be its anchor on  Little Roundtop.

I had always had the impression that Meade was just another in a long line of overmatched commanding Union generals. Not so. His biggest fault (and he knew it)was his temper, mainly with subordinates and the press. The press responded by ridiculing him and painting as negative a picture of the man as possible. This situation was exacerbated when Sickles, after having his leg blown off, went back to Washington and told all his very influential cronies that Meade was a moron and that he, Sickles, had saved the Union army at Gettysburg.

Anyway, I'm heading back to G'burg in October, got to see the cyclorama in all its glory. I guess its a little tougher to get there from where you are!



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 07:20 pm
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pamc153PA
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martymtg,

I'm lucky I guess--it takes me about 2 hours from where I live to get to G-burg, and I go whenever I can, about a half dozen times a year, more lately since I'm toying with the idea of taking the licensed battlefield guide test in December. (Although there is at least one member of this board who lives like 15 minutes from G-burg, of whom I am envious!)

Have you ever been to the Remembrance Day ceremonies in November? There's a parade of Northern and Southern reenactors, and some years there's a really good turn out--the CSA is always a better show than the Federals, in my book! There are also events like Lincoln impersonator James Gettys reading the Gettysburg Address, and on the battlefield, many of those same reenactor units go to their monuments to have memorial ceremonies. It's not the best time to be in G-burg if you like peace and quiet (and if you do, stay away from O'Rourke's pub!), but it is a different perspective.

I'm looking forward to the "new" cyclorama painting. It's been years since I saw the old one, and I always thought it was lacking something. It should be cool.

About Meade, I agree with you that he gets short shrift after Gettysburg, and later. I don't know, but I think if I were Meade in '64 and '65, I wouldn't have been exactly thrilled to have Grant along for the ride, IMO. I should know more about Meade, since he's from Philadelphia and I'm near there (yes, I know he was born in Cadiz, Spain). Have to add that to my "must study" list!

Pam



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 07:42 pm
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martymtg
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Hey, Pam,
I see you're closer than I am to G'burg! I don't know why but when I first read your comment I thought you were out west somewhere.
Never been to the Nov ceremony. Thx for the tip and I'll be sure to do that soon.
I have, tho, been to the re-enactment of the battle at the nearby farm. Its icredible to see. Talk about crowds, tho.
And, yes, I've tipped one or two back at O'Roarke's.
As for Meade, besides the other factors,I think Lincoln never got over the fact that he allowed Lee to withdraw.

Regards,
Marty


funny thing about



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 11:12 pm
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Captain Crow
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Actually there are several nicely preserved battlefields in the west. Vicksburg of course, Shiloh, Chickamauga, Stones river, Pea Ridge, Wilson's creek, Prairie Grove, and Honey springs are a few of the most prominent. I think the lack of preservation is really more prevalent regarding those battles that were Confederate victories. Some believe federal dollars are not equally apportioned when it comes to acquiring land associated with successful instances of rebellion. Just look at Manassas, or Fredericksburg for example.



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 11:44 pm
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I realize this is a Vicksburg thread, and sorry to stray off that a bit. But for my money, if I could only visit one more battlefield it would be Shiloh. Being at least 100 miles from Memphis and Nashville, and 60 miles from the nearest interstate, this park has not had to deal with the sprawl that parks in Virginia and even Gettysburg have to deal with.

Not only is it well preserved, but after all the reading and studying, it is still the battle that captures my imagination. It is easy 145 years after the fact to say what Johnston, Grant, Beauregard, et al, should have done. But this was the first battle fought that had the astonishing casualty numbers (more American casualties in this one battle than all other American conflicts combined) fought almost entirely with green soldiers. When I'm out in this field, I can imagine the horrors and confusion that these inexperienced armies dealt with. I have been in awe every time I visit, and highly recommend it be on everybody's battlefield visitation list.



 Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 11:53 pm
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izzy
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Add a couple more to Crow's western list:

Perryville, Wildcat Mtn., Cumberland Gap, Kennasaw Mountain, and Parker's Crossroads.  I'm sure there are more.  I just haven't been to them yet.  I'm sure I'll think of more after I post this.

Other's are not as well preserved but can be puzzled out: Missionary Ridge, Knoxville, Tullahoma campaign.

The one I'm concerned about is Resaca, GA.  Miles of trenches still on private land.

 



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