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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War? |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War? |
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| What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:42 pm |
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1st Post |
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CleburneFan Member 
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Just wondering what you all feel to be the single, worst large-scale atrocity committed against civians in the Civil War? I was just reading yesterday a detailed account of one in particular but wondered if there were others. One reason I wonder about it is that for a war fought right on our soil with enemies tramping all over the soil, it seems as if there are incredibly few incidents of heinous crimes against civilians given the number of armed combatants involved and the many opportunities they would have had to step out of line. I am not referring to routine bumming and foraging. I am referring to criminal and wanton sociopathic acts. For example, when one considers the large number of men in the war and the large number of women left unprotected, there seems to be relatively few cases of "outrages" against women. Is it that such "outrages" were not reported or is it that most soldiers were gentlemanly enough to restrain more base urges? Mainly, however, I am referring to barbarism on a large scale. It seems as if such events were few and far between or maybe there are several I don't know about.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 07:40 pm |
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2nd Post |
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David White Member 
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Ewing's Order 11 probably qualifies.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:29 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Crazy Delawares Member 
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So many to choose from in East Tennessee and Western North Carolina alone! After that, look out west. So many...it's sad. Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:30 pm by Crazy Delawares |
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:43 pm |
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4th Post |
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Captain Crow Progressive Southerner 
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so many were atrocities were committed by the U.S. against native Americans during the war it would be hard for me to pick just one.....here's one of the worst... Sand Creek Colorado, site of a massacre (1864) of Cheyenne by Col. John M. Chivington and his Colorado Volunteers. The Cheyennes, led by their chief, Black Kettle , had offered to make peace and, at the suggestion of military personnel, had encamped at Sand Creek near Fort Lyon while awaiting word from the territory's governor. There they were attacked in a surprise dawn raid on Nov. 29, 1864. Chivington and his men, choosing to ignore a white flag, slaughtered and mutilated hundreds of men, women, and children. The atrocity has been the subject of much controversy, and an effort to unearth the site began in 1998.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 12:18 am |
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5th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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I didn't know about the Sand Creek massacre. Isn't that heinous! Too bad we were fighting Indians at the same time we were fighting each other.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 01:15 am |
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6th Post |
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TimK Member
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Sand Creek is a gut wrenching story. Not only did the peaceful Black Kettle raise a white flag, he also flew an American flag. But one must remember the times. Even though it was a massacre by anybody's standards, Chivington was a hero in Colorado and in Denver - not only for this but for his work at Glorieta Pass. There is even a county named for him here in Colorado. The story of Sand Creek literally sickens me. I tried to see it a few years ago, but it was on private land and impossible to get close to. Now, I believe it is a National Monument and accessible with interpretation. Chivington, Glorieta Pass, and Sand Creek may be worthy of their own thread, if there isn't one on this board already.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:15 am |
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7th Post |
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susansweet Member 
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I agree Sand Creek is the worse , and add to that after the war Battle Kettle is killed in a raid on Washita done by nother other that George Armstrong Custer on order of Phil Sheridan. Everyone pretty much was wiped out including Black Kettle and his wife who had somehow survived Sand Creek.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 10:42 am |
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8th Post |
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ole Member 
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Lawrence, Kansas.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 01:56 pm |
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9th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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ole wrote: Lawrence, Kansas. Yes, Ole, that is the one (and Centralia, MO) that I read about in Castel's Quantrill book. Castel called Lawrence the single greatest massacre of civilains in the Civil War, but I wondered if that was accurate. I figured there must ahve been others that approached it in ferocity. Last edited on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 02:52 pm by CleburneFan |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 02:09 pm |
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10th Post |
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David White Member
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Centralia wasn't perpetrated on civilians.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 02:46 pm |
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11th Post |
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calcav1 Member
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Chambersburg, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:16 pm |
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12th Post |
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Johan Steele Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352 
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To me Sand Creek wins the dubious appelet hands down.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 06:01 pm |
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13th Post |
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ole Member
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Sand Creek ranks really close to top, but it wasn't really part of the Civil War. Much like the uprising in Minnesota in late '62, it happened during the time, but I don't generally figure it as part. You, however, are invited to think of it what you will. On the other hand, Lawrence was one of those senseless bits of the USCW that ought to leave a bitter taste on anyone, Yank or Reb. What was the toll? About 180 men and boys? It makes me nauseus that old men and kids could be slaughtered in the name of whatever. There was no gain there. If one has to shoot every man, woman and child to take that fort, there is a reason. (Tenuous, but an actual reason.) To kill them all just because get's somewhat outside of collateral damage. No question. Lawrence. To be fair, next on the list is Roswell. And, after that, Ebenezer Creek. We'll get ther soon enough. Ole
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 09:30 pm |
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14th Post |
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susansweet Member
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The Navajo long walk Bosque Redondo is another of the events of atrocity during the Civil War . Little Crow's Uprising and the hanging of the chiefs after is part of the Civil War . The events would not have happened as they did with out the War going on . Just my opinion from what I have read.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 09:42 pm |
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15th Post |
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TimK Member
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According to the NPS and the American Battlefield Protection Program, Sand Creek is considered a Civil War battle. http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/co001.htm
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:16 pm |
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16th Post |
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Captain Crow Progressive Southerner
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susansweet wrote: The Navajo long walk Bosque Redondo is another of the events of atrocity during the Civil War . Little Crow's Uprising and the hanging of the chiefs after is part of the Civil War . The events would not have happened as they did with out the War going on .I concur on both points. Have you read "The Blue, The Grey, and The Red-Indian Campaigns of the Civil War" by Thom Hatch? It's truly sad that so much of what was done to the Indians in the name of westward expansion and progress has been swept under the carpet. Truly some of the darkest deeds of our nation. Last edited on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:22 pm by Captain Crow |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:30 pm |
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17th Post |
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pamc153PA Member
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Once again, folks, you are educating me and reminding me how much I have to learn, at the same time. . . Pam
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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18th Post |
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Captain Crow Progressive Southerner
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pamc153PA wrote: Once again, folks, you are educating me and reminding me how much I have to learn, at the same time. . .That's what I love about this group...they challenge our assumptions and stimulate our curiosity.........and cause me to buy to darn many books LOL! 
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 12:07 am |
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19th Post |
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susansweet Member
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I have read several books on the Western history /Indians , One of my favorites is Kit Carson and the Indians. This book puts Carson in the 19th century where he belongs not the genocidal figure he is made in the 20th and 21st century. He did what he did to Navajo thinking he was helping them to survive. In doing she many were killed. The Navajo of that period were not the ones you learned about in school , the silversmiths and blanket weavers who herd cattle but fierce warriors that reigned terror on other tribes in the area. Civil War in the American West is good by Josephy and of course Hampton Sides Blood and Thunder .
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 12:25 am |
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20th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Calcav, thank you for mentioning Chambersburg, PA. That is where I went to grade school and middle school. My dad was born there. I remember, many, many years ago when Chambersburg had its sesquicentennial celebration a reenactment of the burning of Chambersburg was held...on a very small scale. Anyway, for years I had thought that the Rebels burned Chambersburg on the way to the Battle of Gettysburg, but when I started studying the Civil War seriously, I learned General McCausland burned Chambersburg in 1864 on orders from Jubal Early in retaliation for General Hunter's Yankee predations in the Shenandoah Valley. I'm not certain if any civilians were killed in the blazing inferno, but it had to be very frightening to lose one's home and everything one owned in such a fire.
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