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| Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 09:09 pm |
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19bama46
Member
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Ole responded to a post I had made on another thread and Susan became concerned that we were off topic, so I have decided to open a new thread to deal with the issue...
Below is the posts to date..
-The VA in a reversal of previous policy now states that small confederate type flags cannot be placed in front of confederate graves in national cemeteries. Even for a few hours on Memorial day
That sucks. Can you expand on that? This is the first time I've heard of it.
-The Auburn incident of the destruction of private property at a cemetery.
That one I've heard of. Endlessly. And he sucks too.
-The hue and cry about the CBF being displayed over I65 south of MOntgomery and in Florida...even tho it is displayed on Private property.
It's north of Montgomery and it is magnificent.
-The practice of the NPS of granting hate groups such as the KKK the right to hold demonstrations on NPS property (Antietam Battlefield) on the basis of first ammendment rights, while the VA denies the SCV the right to fly a battleflag as part of a colorguard during the dedication of a monument to confederate POW's who died during captivity at a National Cemetery.
This one can also use some expansion. First time I've heard of it.
And countless other acts to change street names, school names etc because they are named after men like Lee, Davis, Forrest, Jackson and other Confederate figures.
PC BS by people with teeny minds.
Just some thoughts.
Ole
Ole,
To respond issue by issue to your replies...
1. The issue of the small flags on the headstones of confederate soldiers buried in national Cemeteries. This was announced at the April 19, 2009 Il Division SCV statewide meeting. As I understand it, the VA has recently recinded permission to place small Battleflags or 1St nationals on graves even on Memorial Day. In the past Copnfederate Flags (of all types) could be flown (not from flagstaffs) but as a part of a colorguard on Confederate Memorial day and one other day, with prior permission from the VA.... In states where Confederate Memorial day is not observed, then on 2 days with prior permission. I am unclear as to the current policy regarding this, but I am not optimistic.
2. The Auburn incident... we are all aware of that, but I agree it sucks. He is wrong.
3. The location of Birmingham relative to Montgomery... You are right... I continually forget it is South of B'Ham, not South of Montgomery....
4. A few years ago, the IL Division SCV, the IL Society MOS&B, The IL UDC and the IL Orderof the Confederate Rose, raised funds to place monuments to the POWs that rest in cemeteries in Illinois, including Rockford, Butler and Mound City. These monuments were all approved by the VA and space for them was allocated.
In the case of Butler, the newspaper in bloomington ran a story on the monument. All hell broke loose, everyone was up in arms that Springfield was being invaded... etc, etc...
Someone enlisted the assistance of Durbin and Obama (then a senator of about 20 minutes standing)... The upshot of that is they pressured the VA to refuse to allow us to use our flags as a colorguard for a 1 hour ceremony at the cemetery.
At the VERY same time the KKK applied for and was granted permission by the NPS to hold a rally ON THE BATTLEFIELD at Antietam. The reason for permission being granted was the 1st ammendment to the constitution. I wrote Senator Obama a letter asking him to explain how the KKK could be granted permission to spew filth on the battlefield ...and display battleflags as they always do..( a federal installation) under the guise of the 1st ammendment, while at the same time, we were denied the right to use those same flags in a ceremony designed to honor the men who fought under that banner and died thru no fault of their own in Springfield as POWs.
The response was NOT enlightening... I wish I had not blown my stack and thrown away that response...
5. That the renaming of schools streets and other places is PC BS exercised by small minded people, does not negate the fact that it is happening and all too often it is successful, because apparently there are some people who indeed do have a right never to be offended
so, that's my take on your questions
Ed
A couple of minor corrections relative to the location of national cemeteries in Illinois with Confederate POW's
Rockford, should read Rock Island...
Butler is Camp Butler national Cemetery located in Springfield.
Ed
Last edited on Thu Apr 30th, 2009 12:50 am by 19bama46
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 10:06 pm |
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2nd Post |
susansweet3
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Thanks Ed for opening a new thread on this most important subject. I think it is just wrong to deny the use of the flags in the cemeteries etc. Not allowing the flags at memorial services denies that there were two sides to the issue hence the reason for the war. Only flying one set of flags is wrong.
Allowing the KKK any option is wrong. They are the ones that made the flag a bad thing. Not your anscestors and mine who fought for what they thought was right as did my Northern ancestors also. I chose to honor both sides of my family not just one.
I think it is wrong to change the names of places too.
Susan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 11:31 pm |
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3rd Post |
TimK
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It is a shame that hate groups such as the KKK have equated the CBF with symbols like a swastika. Unfortunately, I would say more people recognize the flag as a symbol of hate rather than a historic symbol, and when they see the flag the feel the same way they would feel if somebody placed a swastika on a grave. Sad, but it is a fact. It is the hate groups, not politicians that deserve your angst. Politicians have to cater to their constituents, constituents that probably aren't familiar with the history of the flag. People have grown to feel threatened by the flag. Most people know very little history.
This is a little disjointed, but hopefully my point came through.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 01:38 pm |
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| Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 04:49 am |
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5th Post |
The Iron Duke
Member
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4. A few years ago, the IL Division SCV, the IL Society MOS&B, The IL UDC and the IL Orderof the Confederate Rose, raised funds to place monuments to the POWs that rest in cemeteries in Illinois, including Rockford, Butler and Mound City. These monuments were all approved by the VA and space for them was allocated.
In the case of Butler, the newspaper in bloomington ran a story on the monument. All hell broke loose, everyone was up in arms that Springfield was being invaded... etc, etc...
I wonder if these were the same people pushing for the Lincoln monument at Tredegar...
____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill
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| Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 01:15 pm |
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| Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 01:36 pm |
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7th Post |
ashbel
Member
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I agree with Tim. It is the hate groups flying the CBF that have caused the problem.
Simple solution. Fly the Stars and Bars. Six Flags Amusement parks figured this out long ago and to my knowledge have had no protests or objections.
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| Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 01:48 pm |
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8th Post |
susansweet3
Member
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It really is interesting that the Stars and Bars doesn't seem to have the same response that the Battle flag does. At least most places.
The UDC I belonged to told me before the first meeting to look for the Confederate Flag. I had to look twice as I drove though a neighborhood as it was the Stars and Bars flying .
Also ever looked at Georgia's flag? The big uproar over the former flag and now it's replacement is the Stars and Bars with other things over the top. hmm. Haven't heard of any big protest over it either.
Of course the reason maybe that most people outside the Civil War community don't know what the stars and bars is may help the issue.
Bama what was said by the one poster about the Lincoln statue may be in reference to the big uproar about placing a statue of a seated Lincoln and Tad at the Tredegar. It is in honor of his walk though Richmond after it fell.
As to flags on graves. I think Confederate soldiers should have Confederate Flags no matter where they are buried. Union should have Union flags. Interesting when we were all in Franklin /Spring Hill with Tom Cartwright a couple of years ago we asked him why General Carter had an American Flag on his grave instead of Confederate. He said ,"Boy Scouts.". He said actually a 50 star flag should not be placed on Confederate graves . If it was a preCivil War I believe he said that was okay. This cemetery in Spring Hill did allow Confederate Flags as we did see some there.
Of course in Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond there are many Confederate Flags of all sorts. Same in Magnolia in Charleston . Sadly in Columbia S.C I have heard they have removed even the flag pole by the UDC speakers stand in the Confederate Cemtery .
Take care all.
Susan
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| Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 06:17 pm |
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9th Post |
borderuffian
Member
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ashbel wrote: I agree with Tim. It is the hate groups flying the CBF that have caused the problem.
Simple solution. Fly the Stars and Bars. Six Flags Amusement parks figured this out long ago and to my knowledge have had no protests or objections.
Stars and Bars is fine with me. It's probably the best looking American flag of all.Attachment: STARSANDBARS.jpg (Downloaded 47 times)
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The Iron Duke
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Bama,
Susan is correct about the Tredegar comment.
____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill
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susansweet3
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It helps that I just attended a conference where one of the speakers was Lincoln walks in Richmond. I also read a book that had a chapter about the uproar over the stature .
susan
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19bama46
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The Iron Duke wrote: Bama,
Susan is correct about the Tredegar comment.
I understand that, but don't understand how the origninal comment you made ties in with the monument at Camp Butler...
something is passing right over my head ...
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ole
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Kinda simple. Lincoln walked through Richmond when Davis left. No biggie. How simple does it have to be?
Ole
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19bama46
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ole wrote: Kinda simple. Lincoln walked through Richmond when Davis left. No biggie. How simple does it have to be?
Ole
Well, yea, just like the relationship between strawberries and Iron pipe!
someone is gonna have to tell me real simple, cause I just don't get it...
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The Iron Duke
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Bama,
You said that the people of Illinois were screaming invasion and bloody murder when the VA approved that monument to the Confederate POWs. I was wondering if those same people saw placing a Lincoln monument at the most renown Confederate armaments factory as invasion as well.
I hope that makes sense because my original comment was half-jest anyway.
____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill
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19bama46
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The Iron Duke wrote: Bama,
You said that the people of Illinois were screaming invasion and bloody murder when the VA approved that monument to the Confederate POWs. I was wondering if those same people saw placing a Lincoln monument at the most renown Confederate armaments factory as invasion as well.
I hope that makes sense because my original comment was half-jest anyway.
Duh!... yes finally... sorry I was such a bonehead about it... it went completely over my head, so fast, I did not even feel the wind it created..
Ed
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