Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


Gettysburg Casino - General Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
Poll
Should the proposed Gettysburg casino be approved?
   
   
   
   
   
View Results
 
 Vote 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 12:14 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Well, I know we had a thread on this before, but it must have been on the old board, so let's start it over again. Interested in others opinions. I spelled mine out in an editorial some time ago, realizing that I was in the extreme minority. So let's hear it - is this as big a deal as some think, or much ado about nothing?



 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 02:46 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
Basecat
Member
 

Joined: Sat Sep 3rd, 2005
Location: Oradell, New Jersey USA
Posts: 137
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Javal,

My position has always been with this "problem" that it is a local issue.  Have a huge problem with the CWPT spending as much money as they have on this issue, when that money could be used elsewhere.  The proposed casino is not even located in Gettysburg proper, and am still waiting to here from the CWPT how the land where it is supposed to be built is sacred land, and should be preserved.  What a surprise, no answer yet.

Hope all is well at the compound.

Steve



You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 02:16 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Thanks for your input Indy.

You say parks need a "buffer". How much? One mile? Evidently that's not enough. 2,3,4,5? It sounds like some are saying that because a battle was fought in their town 140+ years ago, Gettysburg now no longer has the right to govern their own town. Why should people that don't live there have any say in what type of business they build a mile away from the battlefield?

I'm still wondering where all this outrage from people was when the huge convention center directly across the street from the proposed casino site was approved. We printed dozens of articles about it, and nobody said a word. Where was CWPT then?

I repeat what I said in the editorial - many in this anti-casino push are those that want to inflict their morality on others, and use the guise of preservation to justify it. I've looked into some of the name leading the opposition, and never saw those names during the fights over Camp Letterman, the tower, the Straban township housing developments or any other preservation fight in the area.

Indy, you oppose this because of what you believe are valid concerns about the battlefield, and I respect that. I have a problem with the pseudo-preservasionists who will forget all about the battlefield when this fight is over.



You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 02:57 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Indy -

Go to http://www.fcap.com/gg_web_files/frame.htm Those pictures are of the complex under development directly across from the proposed casino site.

As for being "hung up on the local issue thing", I plead guilty. If 65% percent of the locals are against it, then it's up to them to stop it, if of course that's accurate. And finally, just because the CWPT says something is so, doesn't make it true to me.



You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 06:14 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
Allroy
Member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 11
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

  Let me just begin by saying hi to everyone at CWi. I've been lurking here for a while but never registered. Guess I'm just lazy. This casino business is such a hot topic I felt compelled to reply.

 As a member of the CWPT and FNPG I of course oppose the casino. However my opposition also stems from larger issues. In Pa this proposal to bring slots to the state was being sold to the residents as a way to bring us property tax relief. If your school district chose to adopt the plan, you would see a decrease in those taxes.

 However, as it stand right now 80% of the schools will not participate. Even if mine did, I would only see a discount of $100 to $300. Not much considering my propety taxes exceed $6000. This being said I was against the slots plan from the start. Gov. Rendell and his cronies are not interested in real tax reform. I'm sure the casino interest have lined their pockets well. I have no interest in making rich business men ever richer and helping spread commercial sprawl any where in the state, espicially Gettysburg.  Everyday more and more back door deals are being discovered. Not to mention the nepotism on the Gaming Commsion that was set up. To this date 3 employees of the Commsion have been arrested for various charges, one for Homicide.  With this kind of track record, do you really trust anyone connected with the Pa slots fiasco and do you want them anywhere near Gettysburg? I say Hell no! And as a Pa resident I feel this is not a local issue, but a state issue.



You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 03:11 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
Shadowrebel
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 13th, 2005
Location: Old Forge, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 71
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Javal,

 Those of you not living in Pennsylvania have not idea of the opposition to the Gettysburg casino. I live in Northeast Pennsylvania where a casino is being proposed. It is to be owned by the same Indian tribe running the casino in New England. Do you think they care about Pennsylvania or profit? Sixty-five to sixty-eight percent , depending on the poll you listen to, of all Pennsylvanians oppose the Gettysburg casino. If by " local issue" you mean a Pennsylvania issue you are right. We in Pa. will see little benefit from casinos.

 Most Pa. resident feel as I do that if a casino does not harm an area it is fine. In the case of Gettysburg only harm can come of a casino. As for the convention center that will not have anywhere the impact a casino will on the area.  We have several convention centers and an arena in our area that have no noticable impact on the area. Gettysburg on it own does not rate a casino. It is too small an area to support one. Only the National Park in Gettysburg and the tourism it brings will support one. More than enough historical property has been lost to greed why add more.

Those of you who live outside Pennsylvania should do more research on the casino issue before commenting. Since money talks you are only hearing the money side of the issue. There is a hearing on April 5th on the issue check the feedback given at the hearing.

Lastly is anyone besides Indy interested in saving Civil War sites for the future? From what I see here I have my doubts.

Thank you

John



 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 05:20 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Basecat
Member
 

Joined: Sat Sep 3rd, 2005
Location: Oradell, New Jersey USA
Posts: 137
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Shadowrebel wrote: Javal,

 Those of you not living in Pennsylvania have not idea of the opposition to the Gettysburg casino. I live in Northeast Pennsylvania where a casino is being proposed. It is to be owned by the same Indian tribe running the casino in New England. Do you think they care about Pennsylvania or profit? Sixty-five to sixty-eight percent , depending on the poll you listen to, of all Pennsylvanians oppose the Gettysburg casino. If by " local issue" you mean a Pennsylvania issue you are right. We in Pa. will see little benefit from casinos.

 Most Pa. resident feel as I do that if a casino does not harm an area it is fine. In the case of Gettysburg only harm can come of a casino. As for the convention center that will not have anywhere the impact a casino will on the area.  We have several convention centers and an arena in our area that have no noticable impact on the area. Gettysburg on it own does not rate a casino. It is too small an area to support one. Only the National Park in Gettysburg and the tourism it brings will support one. More than enough historical property has been lost to greed why add more.

Those of you who live outside Pennsylvania should do more research on the casino issue before commenting. Since money talks you are only hearing the money side of the issue. There is a hearing on April 5th on the issue check the feedback given at the hearing.

Lastly is anyone besides Indy interested in saving Civil War sites for the future? From what I see here I have my doubts.

Thank you

John

 

John,

With all due respect, I have done the research, and again I reiterate that this proposed casino is not in Gettysburg proper.  As for saving CW sites for the future, I have always been, and will continue to be a major part of this crusade.  Once again the problem I have with the CWPT's involvement in this issue is I am still waiting to hear how this is battlefield ground.  If it was, I would be the first to be anti-casino.  I still am anti-casino, but they are using funds that should be used to save CW battlefields, and am sorry, but the proposed area of the casino is not one. Until someone shows me just what historical thing took place on this site, I will continue to stand by and let those who live in PA handle the problem.  I don't see anyone from other states rallying to help me because my taxes are to high in NJ.  I don't expect them to either. 

Regards from the Garden State,

Steve Basic 

Last edited on Sat Mar 4th, 2006 05:25 am by Basecat



 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 05:24 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
Basecat
Member
 

Joined: Sat Sep 3rd, 2005
Location: Oradell, New Jersey USA
Posts: 137
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I may live 2 states away, but Gettysburg IS a National Park. No, they aren't building this directly on park land (although the whole area could be considered to be related to the battle), but it is only 1 mile from East Cavalry Battlefield AND from the sound of it, will have a negative impact on historic tourism in the area. ie. more traffic, more noise, less available hotel rooms, etc. 

If they want to take their casino somewhere else, all the power to them. I'm against anything that has a large, negative effect on the historic experience of the town. There's only one Gettysburg.


For me, it's not enough just to protect the ground that ran blood. Parks need SOME buffer from modern intrusions. Cell phone towers can be intrusions. Something like the Gettysburg Tower, whether it was on hallowed ground or not, had a negative impact on the park experience.

If there's anything I can do to prevent this, whether I live there or not, I will help. A National Park is for ALL of us.

 

Indy,

All well and good, but this is not being built on National Park Land.  Your argument is much the same as many others, as it is already assumed it will be a negative.  How do you know that? 

Chances of this thing being built is very iffy, and to me the money used for preservation of battlefields to combat a casino on non-historical ground is wrong.

Regards from the Garden State,

Steve Basic



 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 11:22 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Shadowrebel,

FYI, I was born and lived for more than 40 years in Allentown, Pa., and still have a son and several grand-kids living there. I've only been gone 5 years. I lived there during the uproar of Penn National being built, and lived there and well remember the similar cries of "the sky is falling" when OTB parlors were proposed and passed. I think my qualifications as both a Pennsylvanian and a person knowlegable of the gambling issue in Pa. stand on their own.

As you can see browsing this board, we have conversations about varying controversial topics, and they are always kept congenial. While I appreciate your passion about this topic, please refrain from questioning the dedication of others regarding Civil War preservation, and do not tell others they need to "do more research". Agreeing with you is not a pre-requisite for either a historian, a preservationist or a person knowlegable on any given subject. Also, do not cast dispersions on the motives of others, such as "you are only hearing the money". Not only are you wrong, but it's not your place to say it.

Last edited on Sat Mar 4th, 2006 11:31 am by javal1



 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 04:11 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
Shadowrebel
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 13th, 2005
Location: Old Forge, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 71
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Javal,

  I am sorry if I broke any rules here, it was not intentional. Nor do I wish to offend anyone. I feel everyone has a right to their opinions and if I do not like them that is my problem, conversely my opinions are mine and if someone doesn't like them that is their problem. I do not expect others to have to agree with me on anything nor do I care if they do. I believe in lively debate so disagreeing with me is no problem.  I enjoy the website and these boards and wish more people would join.

If you feel I do not belong here tell me and I will abide by your decision as administrator of these boards. I do not want to be were I or my opinions are not wanted. I believe in the right of free speech.

Again if I offended anyone or broke your rules I am sorry.

Thank you

John



 Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 04:25 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
Shadowrebel
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 13th, 2005
Location: Old Forge, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 71
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Steve,

 I am sorry if I offended you. I think the CWPT does much good, however they sometimes waste money on things that do not fall within their relam. I am glad you feel the casino issue is a Pennsylvania problem. I do feel it could impact other areas and should be watched closely. While the casino is not in Gettsyburg proper the problems it could cause could impact Gettysburg proper.

 Pennsylvanian elderly were told the lottery would benefit them and they have seen little of the millions of lottery dollars. The casinos that will be built in Pennsylvania will do little to help anyone but the people invested in them. As a New Jersey resident I am sure you know the Atlantic City casino millions of dollar fail to help most NJ residents. If I could help you get your taxes lowered I would, I can't even do anything about mine.

Steve thank you for your reply. Again if I offended you I am sorry. If you feel I do not belong here tell me and as I told Javal I will not post here. Plese read my reply to Javal's reply to my post.

Sincerly

John Heck



 Posted: Sun Mar 5th, 2006 02:25 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
Basecat
Member
 

Joined: Sat Sep 3rd, 2005
Location: Oradell, New Jersey USA
Posts: 137
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Shadowrebel wrote: Steve,

 I am sorry if I offended you. I think the CWPT does much good, however they sometimes waste money on things that do not fall within their relam. I am glad you feel the casino issue is a Pennsylvania problem. I do feel it could impact other areas and should be watched closely. While the casino is not in Gettsyburg proper the problems it could cause could impact Gettysburg proper.

 Pennsylvanian elderly were told the lottery would benefit them and they have seen little of the millions of lottery dollars. The casinos that will be built in Pennsylvania will do little to help anyone but the people invested in them. As a New Jersey resident I am sure you know the Atlantic City casino millions of dollar fail to help most NJ residents. If I could help you get your taxes lowered I would, I can't even do anything about mine.

Steve thank you for your reply. Again if I offended you I am sorry. If you feel I do not belong here tell me and as I told Javal I will not post here. Plese read my reply to Javal's reply to my post.

Sincerly

John Heck

 

John,

I was not offended at all.  Am all for having a debate on the subject.  That said you are talking to someone who considers Gettysburg my second home, and care very deeply as to what goes down there.

As for AC here in NJ, You are most correct.  Only folks that money helps are those who own the casinos.  What else is new? :)

As for impacting Gettysburg proper, the same can be said for the new Visitor Center being built down there right now.  The storeowners are still having a fit as to the new location of the place.  As for the Casino, I hope it is not built, but if it is, we'll just have to deal with it.  Believe me, if it ever encroaches on Battlefield land, I will be the first one down there to try and stop it.

Regards from the Garden State,

Steve Basic

 



 Posted: Sun Mar 5th, 2006 10:54 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I communicated with John via private messages and explained what problems I had with his post, and as far as I'm concerned the matter is resolved. I would point out Shadow that you seem to think we disagrre, when in fact we don't. I've been saying all along that the matter is up to the people who live there.

The overall question of gambling in the state is up to Pa. residents and the question of this particular casino is up to the residents of Gettysburg. I would say the only part we may disagree on is the role CWPT is playing. Since I do think it's up to residents, and it's not on park land or land with any historical significance, I don't think it any of there business.



 Posted: Sun Mar 5th, 2006 02:35 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
Allroy
Member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 11
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Javal,

  You are correct in both regards; the slots issue is for Pa residents to decide and the Gettysburg casino issue ultimately belongs to the Adams Co. and area residents. Like I said I was against this plan long before the Gettysburg controversy developed. When I first heard of the Chance plan it was, for me, adding insult to injury. But I guess I missed your point in regards to the role of the CWPT.

  After considering your statement as well as Basecat's, I tend to agree that the CWPT should be using their money more wisely, as in the recent Glendale purchase. I guess I am guilty of getting caught up in "Gettysburg fever" at times and tend to forget the real preservation threats to area such as Spotsylvania Co. However I still am glad that both the CWPT and FNPG voiced there opposition to this and created awareness. I still stand by my friends and relatives in the Gettysburg area who are in opposition to this. We on the outside can only hope for the best outcome. As Basecat stated the location really has a slim chance of getting approval over other areas applying for a license. It seems my local area in Allentown/ Bethlehem has a better chance. ( By the way Javal, I hope your son is not affected by the big pension issue in the city of Allentown. That is shaping up to be a real mess for the residents there. I just moved out of the area to Berks Co. 3 years ago)

  By the way I just came back from a seminar in Gettysburg that discussed Troy Harman's book "Lee's Real Plan at Gettysburg". I would recommend it to anyone interseted in a thought provoking view of Lee's generalship. Although I must admit that I am biased as I attended several of Troy's tours and am in his camp when debating the battle:).



You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post


 Current time is 11:53 pmPage:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.4878 seconds (16% database + 84% PHP). 39 queries executed.