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indy19th
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Johnny Huma wrote: With some resrvations I am not totally against what the CWPT is doing here..We are getting access to a battlefield we did not have before. I am not sure a bike path is the best idea..For one how about that 75 year old Grandmother who does not ride a bike but would really like to see it all..Or the handicapped person who I am sure is not allowed to take thier wheelchair there..And for the real Civil War historian who does not bike...Are all these bikers Civil War enthusiest...? Are we giving bicycle tours of this area for the general public...? There is where I think my reservations lie, not with having access to this area but for whom this access is for...If we are building this as a bicylce path for the local bicycle club then the CWPT is on the wrong track here..If we are making a path here for the John Q. Public to learn more about this battle and this area is accessable to John Q. Public then we may have a real educational project and not a sporting runway...Is there a walking path their with wayside markers explaining the battle and land features..I do not think we can compare this to Little Round Top that is accessable to all who visit and is directly related to the education of the Battle of Gettysburg..Am I going to be able to hire a tour guide and learn more of this battle..? Too many loose ends I think...
Huma
Without a bike path, the 75 year old grandmother STILL wouldn't have access, nor would the person in a wheelchair. With this bike path, there's at least a chance now for a wheelchair-bound person to look around. Bikers aren't always going to be there, but if they are, it sounds like there's enough room to pass.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. If you aren't suggesting a road for automobiles, then I have no idea what you could possibly suggest in order to allow everyone the opportunity to visit.
Last edited on Mon May 7th, 2007 03:26 pm by
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indy19th
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39th Miss. Walker wrote:
I also understand, I haven't confirmed it, the VA Outdoors Foundation (who own the 3rd Winchester easement) "slapped the Trust's hand" and Lighthizer apologized for inattention to detail or some such. The NPS talked to the CWPT about the deal and the state archaeologist was asked to write up an assessment of the damage to historic resources for VOF.
Spin, spin, spin.
You might want to confirm something like that before posting it on a public website.
Last edited on Mon May 7th, 2007 07:19 pm by
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susansweet
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David , thanks for the information. Very different type battlefield but I did enjoy visiting there Have they restored the visitors center ?
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indy19th
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susansweet wrote: Don't laugh but one of my favorite battlefields is War of 1812 Chalmette Battle of New Oreleans. By the time I saw the film, I was the only one watching it, and then went out to drive around the field I was the only one there. So I put Johnny Horton in the CD player and drove around . I just kept pushing replay and drove around stopping and looking . No wonder Jackson and Lafitte won. They had the barracades . The British were marching across a flat field.
I've been there. The only reason I knew about it was because it was in one of my Civil War travel books. They pointed out the Beauregard House because of it's ties to P.G.T. Beauregard and had some pictures of the monument, the house, and the battlefield. It was more or less a side trip, but I'm glad I made it there. This was in 2000. Not sure what it looks like now.
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Basecat
Member
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Evening all.
I only have one question. Who donated money to save the property?? The members of the CWPT. And yet, no word to the members about this project and our thoughts on it?? Never considered until after the fact. I guess it is easier to deal with a Bike club than their own members of their organization.
I have been a member of APCWS/CWPT for 10 years now, and I am tired of hearing how the members mean so much to the preservation of Battlefield ground. Last I checked, Winchester is a nice sized town, and there are plenty of places for folks to ride their bikes. And yet, this subject was never mentioned in the many missives that arrive here in the mail.
IMHO, they continue to do a bad job communicating with their members, and I know why they did not say anything about this to the members, as the majority would have said no freaking way should a bike trail be placed on Hallowed Ground.
I understand Javal's point of working with the locals on deals such as this, but it would be nice if members of the organization had some say in the matter. But we don't. I guess our only function is to hand over money and once done to keep our mouths shut.
Regards from the Garden State,
Steve Basic
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indy19th
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Basecat wrote: Evening all.
I only have one question. Who donated money to save the property?? The members of the CWPT. And yet, no word to the members about this project and our thoughts on it?? Never considered until after the fact. I guess it is easier to deal with a Bike club than their own members of their organization.
I have been a member of APCWS/CWPT for 10 years now, and I am tired of hearing how the members mean so much to the preservation of Battlefield ground. Last I checked, Winchester is a nice sized town, and there are plenty of places for folks to ride their bikes. And yet, this subject was never mentioned in the many missives that arrive here in the mail.
IMHO, they continue to do a bad job communicating with their members, and I know why they did not say anything about this to the members, as the majority would have said no freaking way should a bike trail be placed on Hallowed Ground.
I understand Javal's point of working with the locals on deals such as this, but it would be nice if members of the organization had some say in the matter. But we don't. I guess our only function is to hand over money and once done to keep our mouths shut.
Regards from the Garden State,
Steve Basic
Shouldn't we wait before jumping to conclusions? Look what's already happened here with people jumping to conclusions. Maybe a couple generous people donated the money for this specific project. Maybe the money came from other sources. It's easy to make assumptions without all the facts. They are pretty good about responding to members inquiries, perhaps you should send them a detailed email.
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susansweet
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I have always been an Andrew Jackson fan. But the reason I went was actually to one up a friend Isn't that terrible? She made a big deal about how you can't get there, that they tried and couldn't find it , on and on and on. this is my teaching partner of years and years who doesn't have an historical clue . Did you know according to her photo album Andrew Jackson was a Confederate general. yeah I know I called Stonewall Andrew about a month ago on here. Anyway I knew I had to see the battlefield after her histronics about how terrible it was trying to get there. I also had to see it because it WAS the BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS .
David White said it is back. I am glad to hear that.
Susan
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| Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 02:29 pm |
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29th Post |
David White
Member
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Susan:
Our Roundtable shares expenses with the New Orleans RT to bring speakers down here so most of our speakers have just visited NOLA when they come to Austin. More than one speaker has said the VC @ Chalmette is back and even better than before.
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| Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 02:55 pm |
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30th Post |
susansweet
Member
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David thanks so much for the information. Always good to hear good news. The visitors center did need upgrading . It was so stuck in the 50's and the plumbing didn't always work. They did have a good film to explain the battlefield though.
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| Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 05:19 pm |
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31st Post |
HankC
Member
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FWIW, touring battlefields on bicycle is my preferred method: speedy, cheap, easy to stop and quiet...
HankC
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| Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 05:22 pm |
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32nd Post |
| Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 02:09 am |
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| Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 02:57 pm |
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| Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 12:22 pm |
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| Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 01:53 pm |
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36th Post |
39th Miss. Walker
Member
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Taken a couple months ago at 3rd Winchester. Keep in mind a normal city/ suburban sidewalk is 5 feet. These are 10-12'.
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| Posted: Thu May 17th, 2007 03:23 pm |
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37th Post |
| Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 03:01 am |
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38th Post |
localyokel
Member
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Hi, first time posting here. As a resident of Winchester and member of CWPT (new member) who is familiar with the site and what the local bike club is doing, please let me fell in some blanks.
First of all, the local bike club is not involved in the layout or construction of the gravel pathways through the site. That is the CWPT. The bike club is working to take back the foot paths that snake through the wooded areas from the 4 wheelers. They are recovering about 4 miles of what will become single track hiking / biking trails. Since they have been riding the site and documenting / taking photos of the 4 wheeler riders, I have seen less and less with every visit. They have also been cleaning up some of the trash on the site and marking these trails for others to use. They are doing this with no other aim except to help the CWPT preserve the site for all to use, learn from and enjoy.
From a local perspective, this path system will be one of the best things to happen to this area in a very long time. Here's the background... Winchester, though in a beautiful rural setting, does not have any running / bike paths where a family can go out and ride together without fear of being run off the road. This site will give families that opportunity and the local community is buzzing in a very positive way about that. Understanding that this first and foremost a sacred site, I understand many people's feelings about how this should NOT be the way to preserve a battlefield...
Let me jump back just 1 year for the sad truth. The 3rd Battle fo Winchester site was a haven for 4 wheelers and relic hunters. It was also a dumping ground for used appliances (many of which are still there). Not to mention the parties that were happening down on the bridge across Red Bud Run. The site was (and is still recovering from) cross-crossed with 4 wheeler trails. I understand the horror from seeing the photos of digging equipment and heavy machinery. Before judging, please visit. After only a few months, it has really recovered. The area shown in the photo had to be totally "fixed" as it was in a large field where local teens would come out and do doughnuts. It was in shambles. There were 2 small pits where they pulled shale out of the ground to make the road bed, but they have been backfilles and are invisible.
In terms of then vs. now, now is worlds better. There are now people out using the site which will make relic hunters less bold and more cautious... There are bikers to help prevent the 4 wheelers from causing more destruction... There are families hiking and riding on the paths that may have never visited a battlefield before. Once the interperative signs (30+) are installed, some of these people may be moved to read and learn while on the site. A few of them may actually be moved enough to become CWPT donors and members (as I was). If we want people to learn about the historci battles that took place on this site, if we want people to be reverent and honor those killed, then they must be educated. This site, In my opinion, will help do this.
One final note, there was 1 big donation from an individual that went toward making this happen.
If any of you are ever in the area and want to visit the site with a local, drop me an e-mail. I'd love to share some of the area's rich history either on foot or bike!
Thanks
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 03:07 am |
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39th Post |
localyokel
Member
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One more thing, I believe Hank asked what the photos posted previously were... They are 3 photos of the packed gravel path through the site.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 03:06 pm |
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40th Post |
39th Miss. Walker
Member
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All of the money did not come from one individual. Check with the ABP of the NPS. I was told a large chunk came from them and that they, the ABP, was upset when they saw how the "paths were being constructed.
My whold point in all this is there are ways to do things. This was done without the notification of even the members of the CWPT. Archaeology was not done nor was historic mapping done. In addition I personally felt the project was a bit overboard. Add to all this the attitude I recieved from the CWPT, YOU WERE TRESSPASSING! and I think you can see where I am coming from.
If any organization wants to do a project like this on preserved land then they should follow all the good practices as to design and archaeology, not sneak a project like this in under the radar. This is no different than the sewer lines at Harpers Ferry.
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