View single post by javal1
 Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 01:16 pm
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javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
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Ulysses - if your comment regarding "time to grow up" was directed towards the pro-flag group as a whole, that's fine. If it was directed towards Shadowrebel, that's personal and not allowed.

Shadowrebel - I'm afraid I don't understand much of your logic.

First you make a huge point that there are no living ex-slaves, so no one knows what it was like. What's your point? Is it that "maybe it wasn't as bad as everyone says?" Or is it that blacks have no right to speak out against it because it was only their grandmothers and great grandmothers who were in chains and not them? I would remind you that the pitiful state that the black community as a whole finds itself in today has a direct correlation to 400 years of bondage. There's no way it doesn't. Those against the flaunting of the Confederate flag atop state houses are not troublemakers, they are Americans whose ancestors were raped of their rights. They are probably also aware that that flag was in fact being flown to protest the Brown vs. Board of Education decision rather than some noble display of heritage.

You also, for some reason, seem to think it's important that slavery was legal prior to the Civil War - under the American flag. Technically true, and that will always be a blot on this country. But if you want to throw that out as some sort of justification, then you should tell the whole story. A few snippets anout the history of the Constitution:

"What should be done about the slave trade, the importing of new slaves into the United States? Ten states had already outlawed it. Many delegates heatedly denounced it. But the three states that allowed it--Georgia and the two Carolinas--threatened to leave the convention if the trade were banned. A special committee worked out another compromise: Congress would have the power to ban the slave trade, but not until 1800. The convention voted to extend the date to 1808."

Want to guess how many of the ten states that had already banned it were Southern states? So in fact we had slavery because the South demanded it, and threatened to take their toys and go home if they didn't get it.

But the Northern states didn't push too hard on slavery issues. Their main goal was to secure a new government. They feared antagonizing the South. Most of them saw slavery as a dying institution with no economic future. They had no way of knowing that in five years the cotton gin would be invented, which would make growing cotton on plantations very profitable. So instead they used slavery as a bargaining chip to win other concessions.

So it isn't a question of a "good" side" and a "bad" side, but of a side that demanded bondage of an entire people, and another side which didn't have the guts to fight against what they didn't believe in. One is bad, the other worse.

Finally your contention that the Confederate flag being flown in historical settings seems to be a "partial ban". Flying a historical flag in a historical setting is not a ban of any sort. It's the proper setting. The times it was flown elsewhere, it was used as a symbol of racism and bigotry by southerners. I would also add that ceasing to do something that is so offensive to 25-50% of the American population is not political correctness. It's common courtesy.

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