View single post by indy19th
 Posted: Mon Jul 24th, 2006 08:36 pm
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indy19th
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Shadowrebel wrote:
Grant only had one slave and that was through inheritance. He freed him of his own free will and without compensation, even at a time he needed the money.

Like Gen. Ulysses Grant's slaves, they had to wait for the 13th Amendment, Grant explained why he didn't free his slaves earlier, saying, "Good help is so hard to come by these days."  (source: http://www.civilwarhome.com/blacks.htm)
That quote is dubious at best. It just gets passed on from website to website. It's no more reliable than the one where he supposedly said that if he thought the war was about ending slavery, he'd have thrown down his sword and joined the Confederacy.

 

One of Grant’s slave’s name was William Jones. In 1858, while attempting to make a go in civilian life as a farmer near St. Louis, Missouri, Ulysses S. Grant bought the slave, William Jones, from his brother-in-law. Grant's ... became the owner of record of his wife’s inheritance of four slaves, but as was the case at the time, women could not actually own slaves, so they were under the control of Grant. No record has been found of these slaves having been freed prior to emancipation in Missouri in 1865. (source:http://www.lycos.com/info/lee-grant--civil-war.html)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/grant/timeline/index.htmlMarch 29 1859: Despite the financial troubles of the Grant family, there is one remedy Grant refuses to consider. He sets free his slave, William Jones, who had come to him through his wife's family.
The 13th Amendment was created DURING the Lincoln administration. It was proposed in January of 1865, but didn't go in effect until AFTER Lincoln's death, having had to wait to get the required number of states to ratify it.

My point is. as you well state, that Lincoln never freed the slaves with his Emancipation Proclamation. It took this amendment that did not go into effect until he was dead. Lincoln never freed the slaves as Northern history tells the proclamation did.
I never said that ALL the slaves were freed by the Emancipation. (It did free SOME slaves though.) Don't you think that you are splitting hairs here? Somehow, I don't see how it was Lincoln's fault that he was no longer alive when the states ratified the 13th amendment. It was voted in favor of by Congress while he was still alive. Since 11 states were no longer in the Union, and they wouldn't have voted for it during the war, it took until after the war to get the required 27 of 36 states to ratify it. I think when we point out that Lincoln was dead by the time it passed, we really have run out of things to complain about him.
John Marshall, whose opinion in Marbury v. Madison (1803) famously declared that "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is," also wrote the  opinion in Ex Parte Bollman and Swartwout (1807) declaring that suspension of habeas corpus was a power vested only in the Congress. Lincoln simply ignored the law.

OK, 

1. Congress was not in session when war broke out. Should Lincoln have waited for Congress to meet and see Washington fall apart in the mean time?

2. When Congress finally did meet, they backed up Lincoln on his use of Habeas corpus, so the point became moot.

What does Congress not being in session have to do with Lincoln suspending the Habeas Corpus since as Marshall's ruling clear states he had no power to do it. By an ex post facto action this does not make what Lincoln did legal making it a very relevant point. He also denied Maryland, for the duration of the war its' rightfully elected govenment.
Evidently you're overrating this ruling from 1803 as I've not seen it mentioned as the end all be all of whether or not the President can't suspend Habeas.
The Great Emancipator never freed any slaves, the greatest of Yankee myths. It took the 13th Amendment to the Constitution to do that. I do believe Lincoln was dead by that time. He proposed three 13th amendments to the Constitution; Lincoln's Three Proposed Constitutional Amendments of 1862

1.  Federal compensation provided for states agreeing to abolish slavery by January 1, 1900.
2.  Frees slaves who "enjoyed actual freedom by the chances of war" before "the end of the rebellion."
3.  Congress authorized to provide for colonization outside of
the United States of free blacks by their own consent.



This shows what, exactly? And on who's watch did  the 13th Amendment that we know today actually be formed under? 

This shows that Lincoln was racist and did not care if the slaves were free in his lifetime and that he want to have the Negro out of the U.S. Lincoln did not care about the slave only saving the Union. Read his letter to Horace Greeley. (source: http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm)  The fact is that Lincoln never knew the slaves were free from their masters, which did not mean they had or enjoyed freedom. 
Shows that he was racist? I don't even know where to begin with discussing this. There's so many different directions to go here, that I'm not even going to bother.

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