|View single post by Unionblue|
|Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2009 10:10 am||
19bama46, I understand about life, no problem with waiting for you to deal with it, I assure you.
You aksed earlier what if any rights of the south had been trampled by the north to the extent that disunion could and should be claimed... (paraphrasd and summarized...accurately, I hope)
That is exactly what I asked and you have summarized my question very well. Now let me address the rest of your above paragraph, if I may. Yes, we have the position of hindsight here in the 21st century with much of historical fact at our fingertips. With that historical hindsight, I myself discount the economic factor, as I can find no real historical evidence to support it. As to the loss of political power, I feel you may have something there, as the slave states were losing out to the greater population of the North and representation in the House of Representatives. There may have been even more apprehension in the South with the issue of closing the federal territories to slavery, but I tend to lean towards the idea THE issue was slavery.
And here is where I part company, sort-of-speak. I think it is absolutely essential that we do list the greviences these men presented and examine them to see if there were any REAL wrongs vice perceptions of wrong. The leadership of the South, in their State governments and in their representatives in the Congress and federal government, were not fools, stupid or without knowledge over the issues facing them at that time. The only preception that I can find that these men had was a precption of a danger to slavery. To my mind, they listed this danger, over and over again, at the expense of any other grevience or factor. I see no "wrongful" perception made by the South and its leadership. They decided what the issue was, how important it was to them, and then pronounced loud and clear for all to hear.
But were they justified in taking the course they did before they exhausted other, peaceful means? In my own view, no, they were not, because they had not been wronged, either in perception or in reality.
My problem in comparing the Revolution of 1776 with the Rebellion of 1861 is in the causes that made each come about. Were the reasons the colonists of 1776 used in justifying their rebellion the same as those who rebelled in 1861? In my view, when viewing the Declaration of Independence with the Declarations of Secession or Ordinances of Secession, there is no real comparison. I agree that opinions will vary, but examing history and the reasons given for the two Rebellions offer clear differences, again, in my own opinion.
Here again we must part company. The Declaration was written with the intent of explaining WHY the American colonies were separating from England and the document included a number of greviences, even though as you point out no set number was listed. The people, through their representatives, were listing the wrongs done to them to show the justification for the action they were taking.
Which in my view is what history is all about. We learn from history, we look at the past in order to apply to the future, to avoid past mistakes if at all possible. I believe it is entirely possible to look at the minds, the values, and the justifications of the secessionists and find them wrong, even from my 21st century computer keyboard. I also feel that a majority of 19th century Americans, both in the North and South, found these men wrong and wanting in their reasons for rebellion. History shows us that secession was debated and warned against many times before 1861 and we have the historical results of two rebellions to compare with one another. I see major differences and justifications for each, some justifiable and some very much wanting.
I contend, as you do, Ed, that the people of this country will have to decide if they ever feel justified in using the DOI for any future struggle over its principles and its spirit of intent. And I also feel that history will be the judge, as it is now, if that struggle will be right or wrong. I do agree with you that the document is eternal and is one of the most amazing documents ever created by man.
I enjoyed our exchange, Ed, and I am looking forward to discussing it more with you and our fellow forum members.
Until our next post.
Last edited on Sat Nov 28th, 2009 10:12 am by Unionblue
Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence.