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 Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 12:00 pm
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javal1
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So some think a new photo of Lincoln at Gettysburg has been found. Is it or isn't it?


Detail by the Center for Civil War Photography


Detail by me....



 Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 02:04 pm
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ole
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Possibly. Lincoln wasn't the only man to wear a top hat. But the picture is so uninteresting, why else would it have been taken if it wasn't Lincoln?

ole



 Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 02:32 pm
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David White
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When I first saw this Friday I thought it was inconclusive at best but that photo was of lesser quality than the one on CWI  and the Philly paper, after looking at this one, I'm thinking it probably is him.



 Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 03:52 pm
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PvtClewell
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Here's another good Web site:

http://www.wgal.com/news/14619871/detail.html

This one gives the overall panoramic view, and what makes it interesting to me is the easily recognizable gatehouse to Evergreen Cemetery. As you go through the enhancements, the second image to me is the most compelling.

What makes the photo legit in my mind is that both Harold Holzer and Bob Zeller are excited about it. Zeller, of course, published those books on 3D stereoscopic photography we discussed a few months ago.

Also, on the enhanced closeup, the crowd appears to be pretty much facing in the direction of the man in the stovepipe hat, as if in recognition of him, while the man in the stovepipe hat is clearly making his way to the gatehouse.

This is a nice discussion to have on Nov. 19, the anniversary of the Gettysburg Address.



 Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:25 am
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booklover
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Sorry but I'm not convinced. Even if it is Lincoln, I'm not really sure I understand the significance. It doesn't add anything to our knowledge of him or the speech. Seems to me much ado about nothing.

Best
Rob



 Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 03:10 am
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javal1
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Have to disagree with you booklover.

 What if we found that there was some anonymous photographer on Seminary Ridge who photographed Lee as the defeated Confederates returned to their line after Pickett's Charge? If we were presented with a new photo of Lee, forlorn and guilt-ridden as he watched his men return, it would add nothing to our knowledge, We already know he was there, and he was forlorn and guilt-ridden.

Or if Brady, on the night of April 14th had snapped a casual shot of Lincoln entering Ford's Theater, and that photo was found today. It would add nothing to our knowledge. We already know he entered Ford' Theater that night.

What these would do however is give the young people to whom we try to relate these tales to a link, a visual connection to these events which we hold in such esteem. It's hard to get those who are unfamiliar with the Civil War interested in it. I shudder to think how hard it would be if we didn't have the photographic trail to show them. A photograph gives a visual assist to tales which some have only read about. I think it's a vital link. Even one as seemingly insignificant as this one. Just my opinion...



 Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:16 pm
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booklover
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Joe,

While I can't disagree that it might provide some interest for young people and maybe get them more into history (never a bad thing!), I feel the difference is between interesting and significant. Another picture of Lincoln might be described as interesting but unless it challenges or confirms something we think we know I can't go along with it being significant, say like a picture of Lincoln posing with Anne Rutledge. Plus, the evidence (as far as I'm seeing it) just isn't there. Sam Wheeler, who operates a Lincoln discussion board that I visit (http://www.lincolnstudies.com) made a good point the other day. If you look at the known photo of Lincoln at Gettysburg, he isn't wearing a hat plus there are at least five other people in the picture who are. While it's most likely he took off his hat before his speech, there were several people who had a hat on during that November day.

Best
Rob



 Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 02:31 pm
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ole
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Significant, insignificant! Pooh.

Is it or isn't it, is the question. Maybe one of our members will weigh in on the complexities of stereopticon photography. I suspect the cameraman wasn't taking random crowd shots.

ole



 Posted: Tue Nov 20th, 2007 03:00 pm
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Fuller
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I would suspect it is him.  Few photos were taken at the time when people weren't posed.  So why the need to take a photo of a bustling crowd?  To me that's the given.  The photographer did his job and did it well.   It was important enough for him to take the photos as "action shots" and not the usual formally posed shots of the time. Lincoln is saluting his men and I think it's awesome.



 Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 03:25 am
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PvtClewell
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I am absolutely mesmerized by this photograph, so bear with me a moment even though this discussion appears to have died.

I've tried to apply a little deductive reasoning here, as far as I am able.

While it's likely we can never know for sure this is an image of Lincoln, what do we know? We know Lincoln liked to wear a stovepipe hat. We know he was at Gettysburg on Nov. 19, 1863. We know this is Gettysburg, and specifically Evergreen Cemetery, because of the distinctive gatehouse. We know Lincoln was tall, and he stands above the crowd in this image. We know he had a beard, and this fellow apparently does. Many people in the crowd appear to be looking in his direction, as if he is somebody of consequence. I don't know, maybe they're just awed by an unusually tall man in their midst. While none of this confirms that it is Lincoln in the photo, it's persuasive enough — for me, at least — to narrow the odds that it could be Lincoln.

The gatehouse also offers a clue. The photo is taken inside the cemetery proper. The cemetery side of the gatehouse has one window in each tower, while the Baltimore Pike side of the gatehouse has four windows in each tower. So now we are inside the cemetery, and actually, relatively close to the spot where Lincoln gave his address. That's fairly exciting. (Current scholarship places Lincoln several yards further to the south — in Evergreen Cemetery, near a crypt — as opposed to where the NPS marker is today in the Soliders' Cemetery).

We can probably assume the photographer who took this image is also the same one (David Bachrach) who took the familiar, hatless, image of Lincoln on that day. Photography was a relatively new medium then, so it's unlikely there were other photographers present. The hatless image of Lincoln was taken several hours before he actually gave his speech, so clearly, Bachrach knew where Lincoln was located. Lincoln's speech was so short Bachrach said he didn't have time to take an image of the president giving his address, but maybe he had time to get an image when Lincoln was done. And this is it.

As noted, these deductions are not proof that the image is of Lincoln. But I like the odds.

On the other hand, it could all be Photoshop magic.

Last edited on Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 11:24 am by PvtClewell



 Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 03:53 am
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javal1
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Couple of other points. First, although the other known pic of AL at the ceremony shows him hatless, there's reason to believe he had a hat with him that day. Nicolay, his private secretary, wrote in his notes for that day:

About 10 A.M. President, dressed in black, wearing white gauntlets and usual crepe around hat in memory of Willie, leaves Wills house to join procession. Receives round after round of "three hearty cheers," and shakes many hands as crowd gathers. Washington Chronicle, 21 November 1863.

Also, your're certainly correct Pvt. that this is inside Evergreen (rather than outside it looking toward it). The tall tree to the left is one Frassanito uses frequently in referencing locations on the GB field, and it stood across from the gatehouse, across the Pike from Evergreen.



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