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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:32 pm
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younglobo
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Ok I am sitting in my favorite chair eating tomatoe soup and watching "The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy" on the history channel sunday evening . My wife comes up the basement stairs looks at the tv and says "how can you watch so many shows about that (the assassination) its the same thing everytime?"

My question here is does anyone else find this one event that I think shaped our countrys history interesting here on CWI or what? To my knowledge We have never discussed it .

I have done some Internet research on it in the past, have JFK on DVD great movie but dont think I can swallow all of it.  Only have one book on it presently  "Case  Closed" by Gerald Posner. I do stop at a TV show that concerns the event to see if it is new or watch old ones I have seen.

So was there a shooter on the Grassy Knoll? Was Oswald just a patsy ? Or was Oswald the lone gunman period end of discussion?

 

Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:33 pm by younglobo



 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:19 pm
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Kentucky_Orphan
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Oswald was the lone shooter. The movie "JFK" is an example of excellent film-making, but most of the assertions made by it are absurd and completely false.

I can't remember which history channel program I watched that had the quote, it might have been the one you watched, but it summed it up well. If you put the holocaust on one side of the scales and the nazis on the other side, it adds up. Worlds greatest crime, worlds greatest villains. You do the same with Kennedy and Oswald it does not add up. The president of the United States and a nobody.

People see a conspiracy because they WANT to see a conspiracy, not because the facts are there to support it. A conspiracy is exciting, entertaining, fun to contemplate. To some, it even makes more sense in that it makes the death meaningful in some way-instead of the truth which is one nutjob just deciding to kill the president and doing so.  



 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 11:13 pm
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younglobo
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KO.. Yeah that was in the show I watched.



 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 11:27 pm
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Johan Steele
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I think Kentucky Orphan pretty much said it all. Me... prove that Manlicher wasn't the weapon that killed Kennedy and I'll agree that Oswald didn't do it. No professional or even vagually professional shooter would even think of using that weapon.



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 12:04 am
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younglobo
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I Cant By Oswald as the Lone gunman but I dont go as far as the conspiracy deal of the Mob, CIA , ECT. just think that Oswald did not have the Contacts to pull this off alone course security wasnt as tight as now and I know he could of made the shot from the records of his marine shootin scores. If there was a shooter on the grassy Knoll think that person was in on it with Oswald, just cant see him getting the whole thing done by himself. Plus I have been a hunter since i was legal and followed my grandfather and Dad before that I have seen many things shot and victims that are shot from behind do not react the way Kennedy's body did that day plus if you shoot something the exit wound comes from the opposite direction not the same direction. The body may move in many different directions like the show sunday states but the exit wound shown on the Zapruder films look like the shot comes from the front maybe it how the body moves ect.

Now i do not believe in flying saucers , the lock ness monster, esp or what ever but did Oswald act alone I am not 100 percent convinced.



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 12:28 am
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booklover
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In younger days, I studied this with the same intensity that I do Lincoln's assassination now, and I have to say that there is something more to it than officials reports have indicated. I do, however, agree that many people just will not accept that a nobody like Oswald could have killed the most powerful man in the world. Am I as adamant of a conspiracy now? Truthfully I don't know. I think given what has happened in our country since his assassination has given fuel to the conspiracy theories, but then again, if our government can lie to us about other things, why couldn't it lie to us about this?

Best
Rob



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 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:41 am
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susansweet
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Bama I was a college freshman , I remember the day and week end well.  I don't know that much about guns so didn't know about what you guys are saying about the type used.  I just remember somewhere back in the day when a radio personality was talking about the assassination and Oswald.  That the FBI had tried to prove that Oswald shot Kennedy and then was seen later on the ground floor drinking a coke from the machine a little while later.  The fastest agent could make it down the stairs in time he said but the coke machine could not get the cup down and fill up with coke in time from Oswald to be seen drinking it in the amount of time passed.  That is the only theory that has remained with me.

Susan



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:50 am
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ole
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Too many questions for me to conclude that Oswald was the lone gun. Too much convincing evidence to conclude that he wasn't.

The History Channel animation shows that the "single-bullet" theory was possible. But I have difficulty believing that Oswald could have cranked four shots through that clattering piece of junk. The "magic-bullet" also begs for an explanation. And I find it hard to believe that the fatal shot came from behind, given the Zapruder Film.

But then I believe that conspiracies rarely work, so neither a plot nor a coverup on so massive a scale is possible. I would not have wanted to be on that jury.

ole



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:01 pm
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Johan Steele
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The four shots isn't an issue, it's done easily enough. THe problem w/ the massive conspiracy thgeory is that it's impossible to keep a secret in this day and age.

As I said all I need is the proof that the Manlicher wasn't the weapon.



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:32 pm
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Albert Sailhorst
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I think Oswald acted alone. I do not know as much as I should know about the assassination, so let me qualify my lack of facts with that.

However, let's look at what Oswald did after shooting Kennedy.

He fled, hid out in a movie theater and shot a cop.

IF there were a conspiracy or other assistance given to him, those conspirators would have provided a better escape plan so that they could better control Oswald. After all, what guarantees did "conspirators" have that Oswald would immediately change his mind and start talking to the cops? As soon as he got arrested, he could have said "Oh crap! I'm in deep now so I'll start naming names!"



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 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:53 pm
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Albert Sailhorst
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Bama, true, "allegedly"....However, eyewitnesses have him in the movie theater. Regardless, IF he shot JFK, his "handlers" (others involved in the conspiracy) would have provided a better escape route/mechanism/plan.....Just a thought...



 Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 04:30 pm
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David White
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No conspiracy whatsoever. I've duplicated-- bettered the timing and hit the target 3 for 3 versus 2 for 3 with the same model rifle and German scope Oswald used and I'm no big shooter. And it was three shots he fired.  Granted my target was at the distance of the third shot and not moving but then Kennedy's car had nearly come to a stop when the head shot was fired.  The Manlicher-Carcano isn't the hunk of junk that the conspiracy nuts want us to believe, while not a great rifle it could do the job.

The Posner book mentioned above is essentially all you need to read. Maybe there are issues with the details of Posner and the Warren Commission but the basic facts are and have always been correct in both.

If you think Ruby is the key to the conspiracy, that is just wrong. Oswald would have been gone and transferred before Ruby arrived at the Police Station had Oswald not asked for his sweater. While the sweater was retrieved his departure was delayed and that gave Ruby the time he needed to get there after sending a Western Union telegram. So if Ruby is part of a conspiracy to kill Oswald, Oswald was a participant too by delaying his own departure.

To answer the question, I've always been fascinated with this crime as well. As to Kennedy's going back and to the rear as Kevin Costner kept pointing out, people who are shot in the head and have their whole nervous system shot out of their head at once, well, their bodies don't react just one way. But looking at the Zapruder film it is obvious that the blood and brain matter are going forward from the exit wound in Kennedy's head.

The Kennedy conspiracy guys also don't like to mention that the Dallas police immediately identified in the recordings of their radio traffic where the shots came from and they zeroed in on the TSBD immediately. Not to mention the people who saw the rifle coming out the window and the man below the window who distinctly counted all the shots and heard the expended casings as they hit the floor.

Sorry a little ego maniac killed Kennedy, people don't wish it to be true but it is what it is.

Also the coke machine in the TSBD was a bottle machine not a cup machine.

Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 04:44 pm by David White



 Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 04:02 pm
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younglobo
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thanks everyone good points made, guess it is one of those questions we will never know the answer to.

David.. had never heard about Oswald and his sweater that is interestin.

did find this site while web surfin the subject the site author does a good job about shooting holes (cant believe i typed that) in the conspiracy theories.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Last edited on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 04:04 pm by younglobo



 Posted: Mon Feb 18th, 2008 05:20 pm
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David White
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For those interested they found several items in a safe in the Dallas County CH that belonged to Henry Wade the Prosecutor of Ruby and more famous as the Wade in a certain case we can't talk about on this board.

There was a huge article in the Sunday Dallas Morning News and thought some might like to see it:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/dmn/stories/021708dnmetjackruby.3bde49f.html



 Posted: Mon Feb 18th, 2008 11:08 pm
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CleburneFan
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This new material which hints at a tie-up between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald is both very intriguing and compelling. What has troubled me all these years is the question of really why did Jack Ruby kill Lee Harvey Oswald? I have never completely bought any of the explanations I have read for Ruby's motive in this outright murder. 

Now we have what might be a link. Yet, this new material may be opening up a hornets' nest.  Amazing, though, how quickly the new theory has been dismissed as nothing more than a "proposed movie script."



 Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 04:40 pm
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David White
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Cleburne Fan:

Wade discounted that transcript and did not use it at Ruby's trial.  The guy who supplied it, pegged out as a liar on a lie detector test.  Oswald was at Ruth Paine's house with his wife the night in question.   The transcript reads like a bad B movie.  It is an obvious hoax that Wade saved in his files as part of the history of the case.



 Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 04:59 pm
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CleburneFan
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What? You are dashing my hopes of having an awesome new round of conspiracy theories in books and movies. Can anyone find Oliver Stone?;)



 Posted: Wed Feb 20th, 2008 04:11 pm
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David White
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Sorry



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