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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > The Lounge > Non-Civil War Books, Movies, Music, etc. > HBO-John Adams Series Debuts 16 Mar 08 |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > The Lounge > Non-Civil War Books, Movies, Music, etc. > HBO-John Adams Series Debuts 16 Mar 08 |
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| HBO-John Adams Series Debuts 16 Mar 08 | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16th, 2008 02:12 am |
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1st Post |
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CleburneFan Member 
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Just in case you haven't seen the ads, HBO is debuting the seven week series John Adams based on the best selling book by David McCullough. Paul Giamatti stars as John Adams. Laura Linney stars as Abigale Adams and Tim Wilkinson is Ben Franklin. The executive producer is Tom Hanks. The series which is presented as a drama, not a History Channel-style documentary, starts Sunday, March 16 at 8:00PM, EDT. It promises to be very interesting for history buffs, most especially Revolutionary War buffs.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16th, 2008 02:21 am |
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2nd Post |
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Lincoln Fan Member
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thanks, CleburneFan. I saw the ad a short while ago but would have forgotten about it if I hadn't seen your message. I hope it's half as good as the book. Lincoln Fan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16th, 2008 10:21 am |
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3rd Post |
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Kernow-Ox Member
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Hmm...I wonder if any channels over here will pick it up? Let us know if it's any good. Of course, might be a bit of a sore point ;-)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 07:04 am |
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4th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Folks, I saw the first 2 parts of the Adams series tonight (7 in all). This is a fabulous movie--not a documentary, but really a drama. So far my only teeny, tiny criticism, is the accents in the Continental Congress: the Southerners had almost none, the MA delegates none, and, as I remember James Wilson was prez and he was Scottish as was John Witherspoon. Mortonson, a NJ delegate, I think, may have been Swedish. It would have been nice to showcase the international flavor of the group, as all were not born in America. With that said, I double checked the difference between small pox inocluation, used during the Amer Rev and vacciation, developed by Edward Jenner ca. 1788. In the drama Abigal and children are inoculated with the actual small pox virus which was why it was dangerous. Jenner, however, discovered that cox pox will develop effective antibodies against small pox and thus developed the first vaccine (from the Latin word, vaccu, for cow), a little later. However, according to a British website, it was actually Lady Mary Wortley Montagu , the wife of the British ambassador to Turkey, who brought the first small pox inoculation method to England in 1721. So here's another historic first we women do not get credit for along with, off the top of my head: Catherine Greene's (widow of Gen. Nathanael) financing of Eli Whitney's cotton gin; Martha Coston's development of the Coston night signaling device used by the US Navy and CG from the Civil war into the 1930s (see her chapters on "Springing to the call" at nymas.org); Hedy Lamarr's patent for radio frequency hopping for antijamming and guided missiles (in my upcoming WWII revised edition). Cheers! CKL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 10:59 am |
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5th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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The first two parts were really fascinating. I must admit that my knowlege of Revolutionary War history is only the most basic. But this series will certainly inspire me to learn more. I enjoyed the show so much, I wanted to see one more hour and would have gladly watched it had it been offered. The actors brought these historic characters to life. I must admit when I read that Paul Giamatti would be John Adams, I couldn't picture him in that role, but he is perfect. Tom Wilkinson makes for an interesting Franklin. Again he isn't who I would have cast, but he is making Franklin real. There was at one least one laugh, even if unintended. Actually, maybe it was intended. The South Carolina delegate, the best coiffed and attired of the group, so probably a member of the plantation elite, stated in no uncertain terms that South Carolina would never consent to a fight for independence. The scenes of Abigail Adams (Laura Linney) subjecting herself and her children to the brutal smallpox vaccination process were tough to watch. The children were so brave, unlike myself. I did wonder how Abigail managed to look so good when she is portrayed doing intensely exhausting work such as chopping wood, and compulsively scrubbing the floor to keep away smallpox germs. I was tired just watching her. HBO has given us a wonderful series. Somehow I doubt it will be as well watched as the Sopranos. My only complaint so far is that they scheduled it to run at exactly the same time as Season Two of The Tudors, so I'm having to watch the latter On Demand at another time. It is a wealth of riches when so much of TV is bland, even ridiculous, even asinine.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 01:26 pm |
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6th Post |
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j harold 587 Member 
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I really enjoy David McCullough's writting. I even signed up for HBO for a month just so we can watch this presentation. I was not disapointed. It seems to be staying very close to the book so far. For a Civil war note. Is the S Carolina delegate Ruffin related to the Edwin Ruffin of S Carolina who was such a strong session advocate? I may be reaching a bit, but does anyone see a common thread between John Adams and Harry Trueman? Both were very common men who did not see a lot of grey in life. They both saw right or wrong black or white. Basically farmers who in spite of strong morals and lack of polish became president. Sorry to run on but that comparison came to me last night. Also recall that John Adams also represented the Slaves from Amastead(spelling) when they were claimed as spoils by officers of the U.S. Navy.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 02:26 pm |
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7th Post |
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Doc C Member 
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Edmund Ruffin was born in the 1790's. I'm currently working in Cumberland, Md thus away from my geneology files but feel that the delegate Ruffin and E. Ruffin are related. I'm related through my Bennett line to the Ruffins. Interestingly, the Ruffins are also related to the Randolph and Lee families of Va. Also, enjoyed the first two episodes, been waiting for it for months. Currently reading Ferling's - Almost a Miracle which chronicles the Revolutionary War. Doc C
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 04:07 pm |
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8th Post |
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David White Member 
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Cleburnefan: I couldn't help but think that the Sopranos fans had to be majorly disappointed by the John Adams series but I have to say I kept getting drawn further and further into the series as it went. One of the interesting things I found was comparing the second episode to the musical 1776. In '76 Adams was quite put out by NY's continual abstention to votes on Independence, yet in reality he considered their abstention a coup and what he wanted under the circumstances. The show really turns the FF into human beings in many subtle ways. For example the scene where Franklin, Adams and Jefferson are reviewing the DoI. Jefferson throughout the show has been sort of standoff and matter of fact about all the politics. But when Franklin admires his chair he comes alive and seems more proud of the chair than the DoI. Dealing with inventors in my work, it was perfect to see Jefferson's eyes light up and he comes to life discussing his invention with another admiring inventor, perfect scene. Giamanti is good but the lady playing Abigal is stealing the show for me.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 05:30 pm |
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9th Post |
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susansweet Member 
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Edmund Ruffin was decended from William Randoph of Virginia. What was the name of the Ruffin delegate? I can seem to find a South Carolina delegate named Ruffin . Only Rutledge. Would be interesting if he was related. Susan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 07:33 pm |
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10th Post |
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Doc C Member
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I would presume that j harold was mistaken and that the s.c. delegate was indeed name rutlege. Randolph, Bland, Lee, Ruffin and Bennett families are related through marriages dating back to the mid 17th century Va. Since I enjoy throwing out the cork and seeing what will bite, disregarding the senseless violence, does anyone see a parallel between the Rev. War and perhaps - Vietnam and our current Mideast conflict. Just wanting to know if anyone who has studied/read Rev. War literature has come to see any similarities. Last edited on Mon Mar 17th, 2008 07:34 pm by Doc C |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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11th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Doc C wrote: I would presume that j harold was mistaken and that the s.c. delegate was indeed name rutlege. Randolph, Bland, Lee, Ruffin and Bennett families are related through marriages dating back to the mid 17th century Va. Strangely, I thought I saw what might be parallels between the Continental Congress's debates to declare independence and separate from England with the South's various state meetings to secede from the Union. The discussions and debates just had to have had similarities, especially after hostilities broke out at Fort Sumter. I also can easily imagine that the continum of those who wanted nothing of secession, to the fence-sitters to the hot heads wanting war "right now" would have been a very similar continuum seen in the Continental Congress.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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12th Post |
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j harold 587 Member
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I stand corrected. The S.C. delegate was Rutlege (that will teach me to consult my reference books) not Ruffin. As always my error was pointed out in a kind non-acccusatory manner. I appreciate the courtesy of this board.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 03:01 am |
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13th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Having just seen Episode Six I have a few comments to make. First, I hope some others here are watching this fine series. It has taught me so much about this iturbulent time of our history. Second, I have come to really like the start of the show when a series of Revoultionary War battle flags flutter in the breeze while the credits run. I have also come to really like the theme song which sets the mood for the show to come. Paul Giammatti has played an incredible John Adams. It must ahve been very difficult to play this part. He is not always sympathetic. In fact, he is a hard person to like. If I had been Abigale Adams I'd have swatted him a few times with the business end of a broom. The actor who plays Jefferson is especially good too. Still, Giamatti takes the prize. A few times during this series I began to think Giamatti could play a convincing Ebenezer Scrooge. Tonight, as we saw him briefly in profile, I also thought he could play a convincing Alfred Hitchcock if a bio-pic is ever filmed of the director. Sometimes the series seems quite slow and very detailed oriented at the cost of faster pace and action. I have felt the same way reading David McCollough's books. He is exhaustive in his research. I have read only his books on the life of Harry Truman and on the history of the Panama Canal. McCollough leaves no stone unturned. This series is the same way. To speed up and drmatize the series more than it is would do an injustice to McCollough's book, but sometimes the momentum does an injustice to the audience. That said, this has been a fascinating series most of the time. I just never knew so much about John and Abigale Adams and their long-suffering family.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 05:38 am |
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14th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Folks, Unfortunately I have only been able to see the first 3 Adams series and hope to buy the set. With that said, however, I have been a fan of Adams for years, since reading Esther Forbes old bio years ago. I've read his and Abigail's letters and some of his diary. So let me give a couple of personal opinions: 1) I don't think the guy was as vain as people make out. First the Puritans were the only ones who self-reflected to see if they were doing God's will and thought all were sinners, so in his letters and diaries, Adams is perhaps the only pres whose mental state we have on paper. He basically wrote that Jefferson and Washington had star quality and he didn't and therefore feared he would not be remembered. Vain? Not so much as just a realistic assessment. He was also the only FF who was not wealthy--poor Abigail was home selling cideer and cloth he sent from France. He once wrote he felt as if he had dug his life out with a teaspoon. 2) The monarchy bit. In the 18th cent. in Europe Britain was seen as the protector of speech and liberties. Moreover, the consensus was that a large republic had a small chance of success. MA experienced Shay's Rebellion that was violent and large. So to propose a Constitutional monarchy in the 18th cent. was not a particularly right wing idea, especially if your goal was success not anarchy. We must look at events in the way people of the time did, not with our own sense of democratic confidence which we really only apply to ourselves these days, not to the rest of the world. For all the great ones, you have to see them as men or women of their times. Sure there were people who were more liberal. But usually the ones on the left or right ends of spectrums do not have "the vision thing" that is, their eyes on the real prize: success and survival for our republic. It's really been the conservatives like Adams and Lincoln who recognized trade offs that gave them the ability to achieve their goals. CKL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 04:17 pm |
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15th Post |
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booklover Member 
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As I don't get HBO, will have to wait until it comes out on DVD. Of all of McCullough's books, this was the hardest for me to get into. The Revolution has never held as strong an interest for me as the Civil War, but for some reason other than that, it's taken me three or four tries to get into it. Still haven't finished it. Best Rob
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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16th Post |
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susansweet Member
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Rob I bought the tape of the Adams book when I was at the Adams National Park headquarters. Then I listened to it while I was traveling around the historical sites of Boston and out into the hinterlands of Lexington and Concord. Made the book much more meaningful than sitting here in Southern California so far from the battles. I have done the same thing with several other historical fiction Cold Mountain , Citizen Washington and Killer Angels. I was one who had never read Killer Angels when it was being praised as leading people to the Civil War. When I do long trips by myself I have several books on tape (cds now) to take with me. I stop at various outlets and buy them at very cheap prices. I also won at a raffle Shelby Foote reading parts of his trilogy. Maybe listening to the Adams book would get you though it . Susan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:44 pm |
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17th Post |
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booklover Member
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Susan, Certainly possible, and something I've thought about doing. Just have to get through the 200 other books I want to read! Best Rob
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:49 pm |
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18th Post |
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susansweet Member
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I know the feeling . I just keep a book on tape in the car as the police and other drivers do frown on someone driving and reading a book at the same time. I have been know to read at stoplights though. 200 books to read? I know that one well. Susan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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19th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Susan, are we sisters? My list of "must read" books is also at least 200-long... that I know of. Maybe longer. I mean, after all, the list seems to be virtually unlimited! As soon as I read one book, I discover ten more I want to read. I haven't read McCollough's "John Adans" though, nor "1776". After slogging through his "Harry Truman", I've decided to stick with admired and respected Civil War historians.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 05:01 am |
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20th Post |
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susansweet Member
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We must be sisters for sure Fan. As I said I listened to John Adams and 1776 on tape or cd. I do it when I am driving and it helps pass the time on the road if I am driving around. I keep list of books I want all the time . My sister in law even listens to me when I tell her the books I would really like for Christmas. Susan
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