Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


Genreal sherman hero cold blooded killer - William T. Sherman - The Participants of the War - Mikitary & Civilian - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 04:18 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
21st Post
44th VA INF
Member
 

Joined: Sat Aug 30th, 2008
Location: Suffolk , Virginia USA
Posts: 63
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I get what colobeaer means buy the time Andersonville was astablished it wa spring 1864 and the confedracy was collapsing so getting food meadicene would have been a difucult task



 Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 10:38 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
22nd Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I don't buy the Andersonville bit, Sherman's men had no trouble acquiring forage in their march to the sea. Part of the reason they were so furious when they picked up a few escapees from Andersonville. Starving men in a land of plenty.

It was ugly in any POW camp during the CW w/ some worse than others.



 Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 11:55 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
23rd Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Just curious, 44th VA Inf, what is your native language? I think it is wonderful that you have developed such an interest in the Civil War.  I hope you stay with it. Don't hesitate to come back here and ask questions whenever you wish.

Keep working on your English too. I know how hard it can be because when I lived abroad I had to learn foreign languages too. It takes great patience and can be very frustrating at times. English is especially hard to spell, not like Spanish, Portuguese and Swahili that are spelled exactly like they are pronounced.

Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 11:55 pm by CleburneFan



You have chosen to ignore Bama46. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:37 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
25th Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Land of Plenty, Sherman's men... what the thread was originally about showed it to be. 60,000 men marched through Georgia from Atlanta to Savannah barely touching the rations they brought w/ them. Instead finding plenty from the area... an area not by any means the most heavily populated in Georgia.

Savannah was starving because the CS govt refused to allocate any rolling stock to bring in food from elsewhere, instead it was being fed by those who brought in wagon or mule loads of produce for market. Much of which stopped when govt tithing agents confiscated their 10%... which was often entire loads meant for market and very rarely only 10% especially when added to the knowledge that most of those rural farmers had already paid their 10% when tithing agents came to their farms and took... usually more than 10%. This food was then shipped to Richmond, some which even found its way to the Army, much of which was "acquired" by the wealthy and the politicians. The CS govt was quite aware of the shifty goings on w/ the tithing system and never did anything about it.

Andersonville... the nearest towns were not starving, at all. They also weren't providing any produce for sale to the camp. At least twice locals who brought produce to sell were turned away. Wirz made no efforts to alleviete the food shortages in the camp. When it looked as though US Cav might arrive to liberate the camp two Napoleans, double shotted w/ Canister, were pointed into the camp. Note,into the camp, not at the avenues of approach for advancing enemy cavalry. CS intent was quite clear.

As I said it was ugly in any POW camp in the CS. Andersonville was worse than most due to incompetance of those commanding it. Elmira wasn't any better. Rock Island, better than many as the same rations supplied the guards were supplied the POW population. None were pleasent... then again the US made a very real, if failed attempt to free POWs. The CS never even thought about it.



You have chosen to ignore Bama46. click Here to view this post


 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 01:31 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
27th Post
EricJacobson
Member
 

Joined: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 18
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

44th VA INF wrote: Geanral Shermans march to the sea help win the war for the union but was his actions agaisnt the civlian population in gerigia and south cariolina to villaniasd he aloowed his troops to pillage to rape and excute in captured confedrate soldiers i personally think his action were wrong and unesary

This is exactly how myth gets perpetuated and threads and discussions get out of hand.  I would suggest doing some real research about what happened during Sherman's march rather than expound old myths which were so greatly influenced by one Margaret Mitchell.  Moreover, you may want to read about what Bloody Bill Anderson was doing in Missouri just before Sherman started marching.  Anderson fits the model of the Angel of Death; Sherman was trying to win the war.

Eric



 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 01:51 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
28th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

EricJacobson wrote: 44th VA INF wrote: Geanral Shermans march to the sea help win the war for the union but was his actions agaisnt the civlian population in gerigia and south cariolina to villaniasd he aloowed his troops to pillage to rape and excute in captured confedrate soldiers i personally think his action were wrong and unesary

This is exactly how myth gets perpetuated and threads and discussions get out of hand.  I would suggest doing some real research about what happened during Sherman's march rather than expound old myths which were so greatly influenced by one Margaret Mitchell.  Moreover, you may want to read about what Bloody Bill Anderson was doing in Missouri just before Sherman started marching.  Anderson fits the model of the Angel of Death; Sherman was trying to win the war.

Eric
Thank you so much for that. I just hope that what you said is not beyond the reading comprehension and philosphical capabilities of some who most need to appreciate the full import of your post. I just wish I could have expressed what you said even half as well as you did.

Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 01:52 pm by CleburneFan



 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 02:00 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
29th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Wasn't it Shelby Foote who expressed amazement that 60,000 troops could behave themselves so well in crossing three states?

Tales of rape, murder and executions are just that: tales -- augmented by time, family history, rumor and bitterness. Granaries and mills were destroyed. Occupied homes were not. Livestock was taken and eaten or destroyed. To be sure, some of the bummers got out of hand -- one can't expect a horde of battle-hardened veterans to behave like altar boys -- so there were exceptions.

It is from these exceptions that we get the myths of depredations, expanded over time to criminal dimensions. That and Lost Cause resentment.

ole

Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 02:05 pm by ole



 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 02:50 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
30th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Thanks so much Eric for saying what many of us were thinking but didn't know how to express it so well.  Guess that is why you are the published author.  The more I read about Sherman and his March the more I realize it was not the March in GWTW a work of fiction after all. 

Susan



 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 10:17 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
31st Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Bama46 wrote: you are entitled to your opinion!

None of what I stated was by gosh & by golly opinion.  I am of the opinion that life in a POW Camp, no matter which side was running it, was hell.  I am of the opinion that Sherman's march from Atlanta to the Sea has been so badly distorted by the Lost Cause that the GWTW version is taken as gospel... not what actually happened.  I am of the opinion that the tithing system as practiced by the CS is all but unknown to those who embrace the Lost Cause... because to know about it would be inconvenient to their belief that the CS was as pure as the driven snow.  Much as screaming about the unconstitutional actions of Lincoln while conveniently ignoring those of Davis is quite en vogue w/ those who worship at the alter of the Lost Cause and the Messiah that is Jeff Davis.  If you would like a reading list feel free to ask.

I got my "opinion" from reading, a lot.  Some of that reading has been legit historians most has been the letters and diaries of the men who were there.  I spend 2-3 hours a day on average reading on the ACW.  I've learned a lot, enough to know I don't know as much as I would like.  I don't burn any incense at some Lincoln or Sherman shrine; I have about as much time for those who do as I have for those who burn their incense at some Davis shrine.

If the tithing system didn't really exist, please enlighten me.  If Sherman didn't feed Savannah, please enlighten me.  As to the three nearest towns to Andersonville... please tell me how many civilians died of starvation there and while you're at it detail what Wirz did to feed his prisoners.  Please do enlighten me.

Sherman and his men were crucified at every opportunity by a batch of wannabes, Iwishiwas and staybehinders.  They would become the founders of the Lost Cause.



 Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 10:25 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
32nd Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Name a captured CS soldier that was executed by Sherman's men, and I'll name dozens of Shermans men that were tortured & murdered by Wheelers men to include a 14 year old drummer boy who was hanged because he straggled. Then I'll add to that hundreds of freed black men, women and children who were murdered because they dared follow Sherman towards the HOPE of freedom...

Thousands of Sherman's men became instant abolistionists when they saw the reality of Cobb's Plantation and the brutality there. Many had been converted upon seeing plantations in Mississippi & Louisiana... but Cobb's proved to them beyond a shadow of a doubt that slavery was a scourge that needed to be extinguished. In reading their descriptions of what they saw, I can only agree.



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 02:27 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
33rd Post
44th VA INF
Member
 

Joined: Sat Aug 30th, 2008
Location: Suffolk , Virginia USA
Posts: 63
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Deshtroying people food supply homes taking livestock and anything elsee of use is no way to fight a war the south had a since of honor when they marched to gettysburg



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 02:50 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
34th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

44th VA INF wrote: Deshtroying people food supply homes taking livestock and anything elsee of use is no way to fight a war the south had a since of honor when they marched to gettysburg

44th VA INF, you are so mistaken about that statement. One of Lee's purposes in  the Gettysburg campaign was to relieve Virginia of the army's demand for food and forage there and allow Virginian farmers to harvest their crops.  Thus, Lee planned to forage liberally throughout Maryland and Pennsylvania and his army did so. In fact, Lee's forces sent detachments out on the way to Gettysburg, during the battle and even on the retreat back from Gettysburg with the express purpose of foraging for food, shoes, clothing, and war materials.  

They stole or impressed or foraged (or whatever term you want to use) thousands of heads of beef, took horses, mules, sheep, poultry, pigs, anything edible. Yes, they even helped themselves to whiskey and some soldiers got drunk.

Lee did offer to pay for impressed goods with Confederate dollars which turned out to be nearly the same as not paying at all.

Oh---one more thing. They captured freedmen and women African-Americans and forced them back to the South to slavery.

Do not for one minute entertain the idea that only Union forces committed atrocities in the Civil War. 

And one more thing, I wish you would respond to statements we post here and not just make additional outlandish statements  without any indication that you have read or comprehended anything we have taken our time to say.

 At first I thought you did not speak English as a first language, so I excused your posts, but I am beginning to wonder if you aren't a troll pretending to struggle with English in order to advance a one-sided Lost Cause agenda.



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 02:56 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
35th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Fan, as far as I can tell he is a very young child who does not have the background in Civil War to answer the questions or to type and spell correctly.  We have had young people on before .  Some are well read and try to learn.  I think this time we have someone who has only one side and hasn't looked at anyother information. Doesn't pay attention to the facts presented here either.

Susan

 



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 12:22 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
36th Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

44th VA, look at what Wheeler's men did in Georgia. In reality, they were far more dreaded than Sherman's men. Largely because they were members of the CS Army and supposed to protect civilians. They took what they needed, left no scrip and in many cases no thanks. It was said they could strip a town of horses, food and forage in an hour.

In their defence, by the time of the march to the sea they had not been paid in a year, received minimal supplies ( other than ammunition)in that same time period and were less than enthused about the support they were getting from civilians.

In other words, there are two sides to every story, I suspect you've only heard one and been told anything that disagrees is "Yankee Propoganda."



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 04:56 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
37th Post
ArtorBart
Member
 

Joined: Fri Jul 6th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 44
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

And don't forget Phil Sheridan's legalized predations in the Shenandoah Valley in 1864. Basically the same as "Uncle Billy" in Georgia; Phil may even have been more heavy-handed on the civilians than on the local governmental buildings/resources.

ArtorBart

Last edited on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 04:57 pm by ArtorBart



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 07:33 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
38th Post
Sarladaise
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Sarlat, France
Posts: 9
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

What about the deportation of the Roswell, Ga. mill workers (about 400, mostly women and children) during the Atlanta campaign? After Sherman had ordered his 2nd Division commander Gen. Kenner Garrard, to destroy the textile mills, he sent him further instructions "...I repeat my orders that you arrest all people, male and female, connected with those factories, no matter what the clamor and let them foot it, under guard, to Marietta, whence I will send them by cars to the North....The poor women will make a howl. Let them take along their children and clothing, providing they have the means of hauling, or you can spare them." Both North and South were shocked by this brutal act.



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 07:44 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
39th Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Sarladaise, the claims of the rape and murder of Roswell women is pure propoganda. What was done to them was bad, they were deported. No worse than what happened to Unionist Germans in Texas, Unionists in TN & Alabama etc. It was an ugly war, but by no means the worst... hell not even close on that mark.



 Posted: Fri Sep 5th, 2008 08:02 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
40th Post
Sarladaise
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Sarlat, France
Posts: 9
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Johan, I didn't say these women were raped and murdered(though some sources claim that they were) only that they were exiled from their friends and families and most of them have never been heard of again. I know that similar things happened elsewhere as well, I just thought I mention it....



 Current time is 09:37 pmPage:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2259 seconds (16% database + 84% PHP). 34 queries executed.