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What was Hill & Heth trying to Prove? - Battle of Gettysburg - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 05:58 pm
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5fish
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On June 30th. 1863, Gen. Pettigrew approached Gettysburgs with his Brigade. Once, he learned that union cavalry was occupying the town. He choose to turn back to avoid an engagement.

On the night of the 30th of June 1863, Gen. Hill, Gen. Heth and Gen. Pettigrew discussed what was saw earlier in the day at Gettysburg. Gen. Hill dismissed there being union cavalry at Gettysburg instead it must have been local militia. Gen, Heth decided he would send his whole Division into Gettysburg on July 1st. Gen. Hill did not object to Gen Heth plan.

My Point:

Gen. Hill's dismissal of union cavalry at Gettysburg set the stage for the Battle of Gettysburg.

Gen Heth plan to take his whole division into Gettysburg must mean he did not fully dismiss Gen. Pettigrew belief that union cavalry not militia was in Gettysburg.

Note Gen. Heth was planing for a fight at Gettysburg on the morning of July 1st. When his division ran into heavy fire they did not retire as of Lee's orders. He had already chose to fight that day.

Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill knew they were going to engaged a union force at Gettysburg on the morning of Jule 1st..

The Battle of Gettysburg was started by these two generals because they did not fully trust Gen. Pettigrew opinion.

Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill set the corner stone for Lee's great defeat because their desire to prove a non west point man wrong or prove a junior officer wrong..?? What was Gen. Hill and gen. Heth trying to prove??


Something to ponder....



 Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 12:11 pm
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gettysburgerrn
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I don't think it was a personal matter of trying to prove Pettigrew wrong. Rather I think it was a matter of not fully appreciating his opinion and thinking he was overstating the matter. As far as they thought this was militia who was going to run like they did against Early a few days prior...or the alternative theory (which I think may be more accurate) is that they took the matters under advisement but they sent enough force (2 divisions, heth and pender, plus artillery) to deal with what they thought was in front of them, with no realization that significant infantry elements of the AoP were that close. Its funny though, the only command decison that Hill made during the battle is the one that started it.

ken



 Posted: Sun Sep 14th, 2008 03:18 pm
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5fish
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True, I never thought about but Hill's one decision led to the battle of Gettysburg. he had little or no role during the battle but can claim he brought it forth..

 

 



 Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 11:00 am
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gettysburgerrn
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What happened to Dick Anderson on day 2 anyway? not an impressiv performance... Actually Not a good day for 3rd corp division commmanders generally..Anderson a non factor, Pender gets mortally wounded and Hill still has one hell of a headache...
ken



 Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 10:13 pm
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Old Blu
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5fish wrote: On June 30th. 1863, Gen. Pettigrew approached Gettysburgs with his Brigade. Once, he learned that union cavalry was occupying the town. He choose to turn back to avoid an engagement.

On the night of the 30th of June 1863, Gen. Hill, Gen. Heth and Gen. Pettigrew discussed what was saw earlier in the day at Gettysburg. Gen. Hill dismissed there being union cavalry at Gettysburg instead it must have been local militia. Gen, Heth decided he would send his whole Division into Gettysburg on July 1st. Gen. Hill did not object to Gen Heth plan.

My Point:

Gen. Hill's dismissal of union cavalry at Gettysburg set the stage for the Battle of Gettysburg.

Gen Heth plan to take his whole division into Gettysburg must mean he did not fully dismiss Gen. Pettigrew belief that union cavalry not militia was in Gettysburg.

Note Gen. Heth was planing for a fight at Gettysburg on the morning of July 1st. When his division ran into heavy fire they did not retire as of Lee's orders. He had already chose to fight that day.

Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill knew they were going to engaged a union force at Gettysburg on the morning of Jule 1st..

The Battle of Gettysburg was started by these two generals because they did not fully trust Gen. Pettigrew opinion.

Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill set the corner stone for Lee's great defeat because their desire to prove a non west point man wrong or prove a junior officer wrong..?? What was Gen. Hill and gen. Heth trying to prove??


Something to ponder...."


Last edited on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 10:14 pm by Old Blu



 Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 10:16 pm
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Old Blu
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Something happened when I tried to quote your post.

Here is my response.

Ain't too much to ponder.  Hill was sick and should have been relieved of duties.  I personally feel Hill lost the war for General Lee.



 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 01:19 am
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Doc C
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Hill didn't get along with many people, i.e. Longstreet, Jackson, Anderson. There are opinions that Hill didn't release Mahone's brigade for the July 2nd assault b/o his dislike of Anderson/Longstreet. Not that Mahone's brigade would have aided Wilcox/Posey's assault. Hill was an essentially a nonfactor at Gettysburg, imho.

Doc C

Last edited on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 01:19 am by Doc C



 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 02:32 am
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Old Blu
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The first day, Ewell asked for help before attempting to assault Cemetery Hill and %%#@&*^% Hill talked Lee out of it.

Last edited on Mon Nov 24th, 2008 02:33 am by Old Blu



 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 05:58 pm
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HankC
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IIRC, Lee wanted a concentration at Gettysburg but ordered that no one bring on a general engagement.

Your mileage may vary, but few infantry officers are going to concede a fight with cavalry as a general engagment...

Blu, IIRC, it was Early that disagreed most with an evening assault on the hill...


HankC



 Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 07:09 pm
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Old Blu
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There was also a few of Ewell's men who tried to get him to let their brigade attack and he wouldn't do it.  Hill had a meeting with Lee and talked him out of reinforcements to Ewell. Plenty of daylight left to wrap it up.  This info is in the book "Lee's last chance for Victory."



 Posted: Fri Nov 28th, 2008 09:34 pm
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gettysburgerrn
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IIRC Hill let his 2 divisions lead with a batallion of artillery...Im thinking if he was expecting something lessthan a general engagement why would he bring so much firepower with him for a mere reconnaisance?


KEn



 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 03:55 am
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CameronsHighlander
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I think Hill and his leading Divisions were expecting Home Guard. eg Farmers with Shotguns, Flintlocks, and such instead it was Buford. I think the Confeds were beyond uaware that Union Cavalry would move so fast in the past they to that point they were ineffective. If you wanna scare off Militia and/or Home Guard fire a cannon over their head they will scatter.

As for Ewell two words John Sedgewick.  Ewell's entrie left flank was exposed. I don't think used up brigades no matter how many thousands could hold the entire Fresh 6th Corps.  The best way to look at AP Hill and RS Ewell they were living in the Shadow of Jackson neither could live up to the standard he had set and never did and if you want to get technical everything that went wrong at Gettysburg were more or less Jacksons fault. Stuart Upset over not being placed as Jacksons replacement went off on a self promoting raid and all but failed in his primary mission.  Lee expecting his Corp Commanders to fight like Jackson realized, Too Late, that they didn't.  Longstreet wanting to fight a different battle only fought Half Heartedly, AP Hill spent the Battle dealing with his excesses, and Ewell spent time listening to Early who deserved to get hit with a plate again and again 

Last edited on Tue Jun 29th, 2010 04:11 am by CameronsHighlander



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