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| Eugenics | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:13 am |
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1st Post |
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Doc C Member 
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In the middle of a great, I mean Great book, about eugenics - War Against the Weak by Edwin Black. When I finish, I'll certainly provide a review. In the meantime, for those who are unfamiliar with eugenics, the greek derivative means good birth. Shortly after the end of the cw, with the findings of Darwin and others, came the eugenics movement. First in Great Britain but carried forward in the US. In short, those considered feeble minded, criminal, shiftless, a drain on society, etc. (you were considered deficient if you had a family history of poverty, seizures, etc. (even if you were a "quote" good citiizen) would be undesirable. In conclusion, think the nazis came up with their own ideas of super race, THINK AGAIN, they used the ideas and philosophies of the good ole USA, i.e. sterilization (numerous states had laws on the books for sterilization of again "quote" mentaly deficient, shiftless citizens), banning of marriages, etc., even the US Supreme Court upheld these state laws. California had over 15,000 sterilizations. Many of our great U S citizens were proponents of Eugenics - Roosevelt, Wilson, Ford, Carnegie, etc. Even though this movement occurred primarily in the late 19th and early to mid 20th century it is still relavent today - genetic egineering, cloning, stem cell research, etc. Just thought this would be a thought/dialogue provoking topic. Doc C
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:45 am |
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2nd Post |
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pamc153PA Member
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Doc C, Wow, really interesting topic! Funny, the first thing I thought of was the Nazis--I didn't know about Britain, though I was aware of the U.S. sterilizations, etc. You know, genetic engineering definitely fits the category. Most of the things I've heard/read about it are in the "wonders of" vein, how we can get rid of disease and devastating hereditary conditions--the positives. But there's always the flip side, and it's an interesting paradox: what's the line between ridding our society of, say, diabetes, which costs millions of dollars a year for our society, and ridding our society mental illness, which also costs millions? What is the difference to an intelligent and humane society? And who gets to make that decision? It would be nice if you were on the decision-making end of things, rather than the receiving end. . . When were the laws, such as the California one you mentioned, overturned or declared unconstitutional? Or were they? Pam
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:58 am |
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3rd Post |
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Doc C Member
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Haven't got that far with the book. In the early 1900's to 1930's, sheriffs' cars would pull up to your home, drag you, your children out and take them to state hospitals where they would be sterilized - in some cases just because you were poor. Many of these same children didn't even know they were sterilized until years later when they had difficulty in conceiving. Interestingly, many of these concepts were begun in organizations such as the American Breeders Association, Dept. of Agriculture. The concept being - if we are going to try to breed the best animals, create the best plants - WHY NOT HUMANS. Even though I'm definitely a proponent of ridding our society of disease, genetic manipulation can go to the extremes. Have heard of attempts to manipulate for the desired sex of infants, i.e. WHAT NEXT? Doc C
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 02:04 am |
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4th Post |
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pamc153PA Member
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Scary, scary. All you need is the right organization or person, and the right climate in the country, and people start thinking, Hmm, maybe that's not a bad idea. . . It's been done before. Every year, I try to explain to my eighth graders how some slightly paunchy, squinty-eyed man with a strange little mustache got millions of Germans to agree that the Jews, gypsies, mentally ill, etc. really NEEDED to be exterminated, and it's very difficult. But it's also very important for them to know, because it never goes away. Pam
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 04:15 pm |
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5th Post |
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ole Member 
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Today we make jokes about Darwin's list and who ought not reproduce. And we tend to forget that there were those who took it seriously. "Thy will be done" ought to be left just exactly there. I usually figure that He doesn't need our interference. Merry Christmas! Ole
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 02:11 am |
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6th Post |
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Doc C Member
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With the end of the cw, beginning of the great influx of european immigrants, native americans, not the original, were deeply concerned with the future of the country. They were also very worried that this would create a financial drain on the country's resourses. 2 points - was eugenics a direct continuation of the cw and secondly doesn't this same fear play into our current affairs? Doc C
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:04 am |
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7th Post |
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The Iron Duke Member 
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Look to the Spartans for an early example of eliminating the undesirables of society. Georgia was initially a debtors colony; that seems to be an example of Britain trying to cleanse itself of its undesirables.
____________________ "Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 03:42 pm |
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8th Post |
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David White Member 
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Scary, scary. All you need is the right organization or person, and the right climate in the country, and people start thinking, Hmm, maybe that's not a bad idea It's happening now here-- Sanger and PP, will say no more as the topic is banned here but the history of the lady and her organization are grounded in eugenics.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 04:09 pm |
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9th Post |
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Doc C Member
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David The eugenics organization and pp paralleled each other. However, the 2 groups never joined because of 1 significant difference. The proeugenics movement felt those individuals whom they considered "good for society" to have as many children as possible whereas the pp pushed for "birth control" irregardless of ones' social standing. Because of these differences, leaders in both groups never joined as one. Topic banned? Doc C
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:24 pm |
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10th Post |
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javal1 Grumpy Geezer 
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Doc - David was actually very slyly breaking the rule he's refering to. I'm sure he'll stop doing that  It's under the "What's Not Allowed" thread and reads:
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:54 pm |
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11th Post |
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Doc C Member
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J Agree wholeheartedly. Did my last post cross the line? If so I apologize. Doc C Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:54 pm by Doc C |
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:00 pm |
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12th Post |
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5fish Member 
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Eugenics interesting topic... There is a movie on a similar theme called "Gattaca". It set in the resent future were you can select what genes your child will process form the two parents. I recommend this movie because the future it present is not and evil one but one where if you do not have the right gene's you will be lift out of what life and society has to offer..... It will make you think!!! Only the one's with the best DNA get all benefits while all others toil... A muse....
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:23 pm |
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13th Post |
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Doc C Member
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Actually I think we're knocking on the door. Ranchers are able to select male or female cattle semen (sex determination is in the sperm, bout the only contribution we males make) thus with nearly 100% assurance of sex determination. Also there able to manipulate the genes on the chromosomes. The next step, you got it, Homo sapiens. Hopefully we'll never reach the point where parents can select sex, size, iq, etc. of their offspring. Doc C
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 07:20 pm |
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14th Post |
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5fish Member
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I saw fertility doctors on TV "They can screen for sex and have almost master eye color." In a decade designer babies will become the norm for those who can pay for it... The world the movie "Gattaca" for shadowed is coming true....if you have the money.. A muse...
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