Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


Eugenics - Other History - The Lounge - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:13 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

In the middle of a great, I mean Great book, about eugenics - War Against the Weak by Edwin Black. When I finish, I'll certainly provide a review. In the meantime, for those who are unfamiliar with eugenics, the greek derivative means good birth. Shortly after the end of the cw, with the findings of Darwin and others, came the eugenics movement. First in Great Britain but carried forward in the US. In short, those considered feeble minded, criminal, shiftless, a drain on society, etc. (you were considered deficient if you had a family history of poverty, seizures, etc. (even if you were a "quote" good citiizen) would be undesirable. In conclusion, think the nazis came up with their own ideas of super race, THINK AGAIN, they used the ideas and philosophies of the good ole USA, i.e. sterilization (numerous states had laws on the books for sterilization of again "quote" mentaly deficient, shiftless citizens), banning of marriages, etc., even the US Supreme Court upheld these state laws. California had over 15,000 sterilizations. Many of our great U S citizens were proponents of Eugenics - Roosevelt, Wilson, Ford, Carnegie, etc. Even though this movement occurred primarily in the late 19th and early to mid 20th century it is still relavent today - genetic egineering, cloning, stem cell research, etc. Just thought this would be a thought/dialogue provoking topic.

Doc C



 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:45 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
pamc153PA
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jun 14th, 2008
Location: Boyertown, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 407
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Doc C,

Wow, really interesting topic! Funny, the first thing I thought of was the Nazis--I didn't know about Britain, though I was aware of the U.S. sterilizations, etc.

You know, genetic engineering definitely fits the category. Most of the things I've heard/read about it are in the "wonders of" vein, how we can get rid of disease and devastating hereditary conditions--the positives. But there's always the flip side, and it's an interesting paradox: what's the line between ridding our society of, say, diabetes, which costs millions of dollars a year for our society, and ridding our society mental illness, which also costs millions? What is the difference to an intelligent and humane society? And who gets to make that decision? It would be nice if you were on the decision-making end of things, rather than the receiving end. . .

When were the laws, such as the California one you mentioned, overturned or declared unconstitutional? Or were they?

Pam



 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 01:58 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Haven't got that far with the book. In the early 1900's to 1930's, sheriffs' cars would pull up to your home, drag you, your children out and take them to state hospitals where they would be sterilized - in some cases just because you were poor. Many of these same children didn't even know they were sterilized until years later when they had difficulty in conceiving. Interestingly, many of these concepts were begun in organizations such as the American Breeders Association, Dept. of Agriculture. The concept being - if we are going to try to breed the best animals, create the best plants - WHY NOT HUMANS. Even though I'm definitely a proponent of ridding our society of disease, genetic manipulation can go to the extremes. Have heard of attempts to manipulate for the desired sex of infants, i.e. WHAT NEXT?

Doc C



 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 02:04 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
pamc153PA
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jun 14th, 2008
Location: Boyertown, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 407
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Scary, scary. All you need is the right organization or person, and the right climate in the country, and people start thinking, Hmm, maybe that's not a bad idea. . .  It's been done before. Every year, I try to explain to my eighth graders how some slightly paunchy, squinty-eyed man with a strange little mustache got millions of Germans to agree that the Jews, gypsies, mentally ill, etc. really NEEDED to be exterminated, and it's very difficult. But it's also very important for them to know, because it never goes away.

Pam



 Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 04:15 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Today we make jokes about Darwin's list and who ought not reproduce. And we tend to forget that there were those who took it seriously. "Thy will be done" ought to be left just exactly there. I usually figure that He doesn't need our interference.

Merry Christmas!

Ole



 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 02:11 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

With the end of the cw, beginning of the great influx of european immigrants, native americans, not the original, were deeply concerned with the future of the country. They were also very worried that this would create a financial drain on the country's resourses. 2 points - was eugenics a direct continuation of the cw and secondly doesn't this same fear play into our current affairs?

Doc C



 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:04 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
The Iron Duke
Member


Joined: Tue Jul 29th, 2008
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 333
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Look to the Spartans for an early example of eliminating the undesirables of society. Georgia was initially a debtors colony; that seems to be an example of Britain trying to cleanse itself of its undesirables.



____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill


 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 03:42 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
David White
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 909
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Scary, scary. All you need is the right organization or person, and the right climate in the country, and people start thinking, Hmm, maybe that's not a bad idea

It's happening now here-- Sanger and PP, will say no more as the topic is banned here but the history of the lady and her organization are grounded in eugenics.



 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 04:09 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

David

The eugenics organization and pp paralleled each other. However, the 2 groups never joined because of 1 significant difference. The proeugenics movement felt those individuals whom they considered "good for society" to have as many children as possible whereas the pp pushed for "birth control" irregardless of ones' social standing. Because of these differences, leaders in both groups never joined as one. Topic banned?

Doc C



 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:24 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1502
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Doc -

David was actually very slyly breaking the rule he's refering to. I'm sure he'll stop doing that :X It's under the "What's Not Allowed" thread and reads:
  • Never talk about [highlight= #ffff88]abortion. Never refer to [highlight= #ffff88]abortion. If you can't make your point without doing so, don't make the point. This is the one subject which we've seen that never ends in a civil manner.



 Posted: Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:54 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

J

Agree wholeheartedly. Did my last post cross the line? If so I apologize.

Doc C

Last edited on Mon Dec 22nd, 2008 05:54 pm by Doc C



 Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:00 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
5fish
Member


Joined: Sun Jul 13th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 141
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Eugenics interesting topic... There is a movie on a similar theme called "Gattaca". It set in the resent future were you can select what genes your child will process form the two parents. I recommend this movie because the future it present is not and evil one but one where if you do not have the right gene's you will be lift out of what life and society has to offer..... It will make you think!!!

Only the one's with the best DNA get all benefits while all others toil...

A muse....



 Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 06:23 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
Doc C
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 1st, 2006
Location:  Eastern Shore, Maryland USA
Posts: 822
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Actually I think we're knocking on the door. Ranchers are able to select male or female cattle semen (sex determination is in the sperm, bout the only contribution we males make) thus with nearly 100% assurance of sex determination. Also there able to manipulate the genes on the chromosomes. The next step, you got it, Homo sapiens. Hopefully we'll never reach the point where parents can select sex, size, iq, etc. of their offspring.

Doc C



 Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 07:20 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
5fish
Member


Joined: Sun Jul 13th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 141
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I saw fertility doctors on TV "They can screen for sex and have almost master eye color." In a decade designer babies will become the norm for those who can pay for it...

The world the movie "Gattaca" for shadowed is coming true....if you have the money..

A muse...



 Current time is 03:09 pm
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.3671 seconds (10% database + 90% PHP). 26 queries executed.