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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > The Participants of the War - Mikitary & Civilian > Other People of the Civil War > Women of Civil War Battlefields |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > The Participants of the War - Mikitary & Civilian > Other People of the Civil War > Women of Civil War Battlefields |
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| Women of Civil War Battlefields | Rating: 
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| Posted: Sat May 2nd, 2009 10:01 pm |
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1st Post |
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Old North State Member
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This is a question. Are there folks on this forum who are interested in the history of the women who served in the field during the Civil War? I haven't noticed any recent comments about them.  Frances Hook (or so she said her name was), alias Frank Miller, served with the 90th Illinois from August 1862, when she enlisted in Chicago, until captured in October 1863 while foraging near Florence, AL. She was wounded while trying to escape and imprisoned in Atlanta. Found to be a woman, she was exchanged at Graysville, GA in February 1864 and hospitalized in Chattanooga and then Nashville. Her leg wound became infected during her imprisonment and required extended hospitalization for recovery sufficient for authorities to send her "north", presumably to Chicago. It is rare to find any official military record of a woman serving as a soldier (although a few such records exist), but in Frances Hook's case there is an official medical record of her hospitalizations. A Chicago newpaper account in 1862 tells of the discovery that she was a female and a Memphis newspaper account in 1863 relates her continuing service with the 90th IL. An interview by a New York Times reporter in April 1864 provides the most coherent story of her capture, wounding, imprisonment and exchange. She apparently fought with the 90th IL as they repulsed Van Dorn's raiders north of Holly Springs, MS, and during the seige of Jackson, MS after Vicksburg.
____________________ "While we live we will cherish, protect and defend her." |
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| Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:56 pm |
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2nd Post |
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calcav1 Member
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Old North State, I am particularly intrested in the very woman you have noted. I am writing an article for Blue & Gray Magazine on the Holly Springs Raid and recently learned of Francis/Frank. I found an article from the Memphis Bulletin, April 1, 1863, which gives a great account of her activity up to that point. I found the articles you sited as well and a website with a little more info. Apparently she not only fought at Coldwater during the Holly Springs Raid, but also fought at Shiloh as a soldier in the 11th Illinois Infantry. http://civilwarwomen.blogspot.com/2007/01/frances-hook.html Tom Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 10:01 pm by calcav1 |
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| Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 10:46 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Old North State Member
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Tom, Thanks for the website. I wonder if there is any evidence of her service in the 11th Illinois other than her apparent statement that she and her brother served in that unit. Old North State
____________________ "While we live we will cherish, protect and defend her." |
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| Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 07:55 pm |
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4th Post |
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susansweet3 Member 
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I am very interested in women who served in battle . I have read two books Uncommon Soldier and They fought Like Demons. Enjoyed both of them. Also have Women in the Civil War which I tend to read at not just sit down and read. Susan
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| Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 06:47 pm |
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5th Post |
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jeffand Member 
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I just spent a few minutes at the site named above. I found it very interesting to see what role women had during the war. I intend to spend more time there soon. Thanks for the information.
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| Posted: Thu May 7th, 2009 10:21 pm |
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6th Post |
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susansweet3 Member
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It is a really good site. I check it every so often to read about women in the Civil War .
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| Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 01:16 am |
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7th Post |
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TimK Member
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I went to the website Tom suggested to get a quick glance, and the next thing I knew, an hour and a half had passed. I get fascinated by peoples stories, and some of these women had some incredible lives. I only scratched the surface, and I always appreciate the opportunity to take a peak into history. I'm sure I'll head back there a few more times.
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| Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 06:53 am |
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8th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Folks, I'm one of the ones who got the ball rolling on the women Civil War soldiers in the early 90s. Currently there are 3 good books out: the most recent and readable, Women on the Civil War Battlefront by Richard Hall (UPress Kansas, 2006); Deanne Blanton's and Lauren Cook's, They Fought Like Demons; and Elizabeth D. Leonard's All the Daring of a Solider: Women of the Civil War Armies. Hall includes battlefield nurses and Leonard does a good job covering US detectives. Also see Linda Grant DePauw's CW chapter in Battlecries and Lullabies. Go to my website designed specifically for teachers and students: "Springing to the Call: A Documentary View of Women in the American Civil War," at http://www.nymas.org, right sidebar, scroll down. E.g., Annie Etheridge's pension bill copy; Eliz. Taylor, CSNavy, among other documents, including the most pertinent chapters of Martha Coston's memoir, A Signal Success. She developed the Coston night signaling system used up till the 1930s by the Navy and CG. Also on the NYMAS website is my complete chapter on Anna Ella Carroll and the 1862 Tenneessee River campaign (did anyone see the 1938 movie on her "Strange Glory" 5/5 on TCM?). Hall, Blanton and De Pauw are all my friends and so far we've documented about 300 women soldiers/combatants. My own cousin, presumably Frances Deming, served 9 months in Co. A, 17th OVI and was discharged for "the congenital peculiarity of being female." I have a copy of her discharge form. Maggie McLean's blogspot is very good, but not all her information is accurate, although it appears most is. Also see the new bios of Elizabeth Van Lew by Eliz. Varon; Pauline Cushman by William J. Christen; and Rose Greenhow by Ann Blackman. Still the best 1-volume treatment of women in the war is Mary Massey's Women in the Civil War, originally published in the 60s as Bonnet Brigades, not an enticing title. Then there is my novel, South Under a Prairie Sky: The Journal of Nell Churchill, US Army Nurse & Scout, a very fact-based work of fiction set in IL on the homefront and mostly TN on the war front, based partly on my mother's family in Warren/Henderson Cos. IL. Cheers!, CKLarson
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| Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 08:53 pm |
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9th Post |
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Old North State Member
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CK Larson, Thank you for your very informative post. The excellent information is appreciated. I wonder what your thoughts are about documentation of women's service during the Civil War? When one consults several sources, it is clear that some sources of information are accepted by some authors, but not by others. Moreover, the information is sometimes in conflict with the chronology of the war, but the conflict seems not to be noticed by the author. This seems to suggest that it would be useful to be more aware of sources of information and make some distinctions based on the type of source. For example, presumably official military records would be an excellent source, but not available very often for a given woman. Specific information in a soldier's letter home would be a good source, but if the soldier is citing rumors, presumably that would be a less good source, etc. etc. Stories told by third parties sometime after the war could be more questionable. As a professional working on this subject, how have you viewed various sources of information? Again, thanks for the excellent information in your post. Old North State
____________________ "While we live we will cherish, protect and defend her." |
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| Posted: Sun May 10th, 2009 05:41 am |
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10th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Dear ONS, Thanks for your kind response. Three of the 4 authors of the books on the women soldiers are professional researchers. Dick Hall, as I remember, worked for the Congressional Research service; Deanne Blanton is a senior military archivist at NARA; and Eliz. Leonard is a professor at Colby College. Clearly govt. records are best. I've gone through all the official navy records and probably 25% of army records. But most accounts come from newspapers, often in the towns where the women were discharged. Then other papers would circulate the accounts. For instance an AR paper printed an account of a young woman who tried to enlist in Monmouth IL, my aunt's hometown. So it's like playing telephone, the story gets distorted as it goes along. But Dick, Deanne, and Lauren have spent more than 10 years researching these women, and many have multiple sources. Often there are pension bills and files as in the cases of S. Emma E. Edmonds, aka Franklin Thompson, 2nd MI, who wrote her autobio in 1864, Unsexed; or the female soldier; Annie Etheridge; Nadine Turchin and others. Also you have to pick through memoirs, e.g., NY Herald reporter Richardson for Union scout Melvina (last name, don't remember). I just learned one of my Beresford cousins is related to Diane Smith, one of the WVA Moccasin Rangers, along with Nancy Hart. That's why I did my website, so teachers and students would have access to govt. documents, memoir material, articles, and biographies that are reliable, from the period and in the public domain. Now as to the question, what do you believe? The 2 biographers Edmonds and Loreta Janeta Velazquez fictionalized parts. So, for instance, in reviewing the new bio of Pauline Cushman, I wrote that you have to judge each major incident on its own merits. Christen questioned Cushman's tale about aborting a poisoning of US soldiers by a boarding house owner while kept in her house, when Cushman was operating as a US army detective. But I asked why? There were other instances of poisoning of supplies and persons during the war, e.g.., owners by slaves and other women's detective duties were similiar. On the other hand, Christen took at face value, the charge that Cushman, later in life, had stolen goods. But there was no other indication of dishonesty on her part. Annie Oakley was accused of the same thing and the criminal turned out to be an impersonator. Oakely spent years suing newspapers on this case. Anna Ella Carroll, currently, has been accused of suborning perjury and concocting documents, when she had nothing but a sterling record and operated at the highest govt. and political levels for 25 years--in other words, she would have been found out earlier, had she been a fraud. But the blame is with the researchers and she is a particularly lightning rod because people don't want her to be so important--sorry, but she was--an advisor to Lincoln and all that. So once you see the range of things all the women did and do enough general research to know the kinds of incidents that were occurring, you get a feel for what is suspect and what is not. But as you say, the dates and facts have to match. Indeed, one Sat. afternoon, I called Dick screaming, it's Loreta, it's Loreta! She wrote that in the fall of '61, she got transportation papers to go west from VA to Fort Donelson. In the _Rebel Clerk's Diary_, a soldier enters his office in the fall of '61, giving a funny unit name and demanding transportation papers. She makes the mistake of curtseying as she leaves. So this matches Loreta's account. There are other funny incidents, like the women who were discovered because they forget themselves: one reached to catch apples in an apron she wasn't wearing and another, in a slip of the mind, started to put her pants on over her head, forgeting it wasn't a dress. Also as judged by the Monmouth incident, after a while recruiting officers were on the look out for women. CKL
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| Posted: Mon May 11th, 2009 10:15 pm |
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11th Post |
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Old North State Member
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CK Larson, Thank you for the very thoughtful response. ONS
____________________ "While we live we will cherish, protect and defend her." |
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| Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 01:38 am |
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12th Post |
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CleburneFan Member 
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Old North State wrote: This is a question. Are there folks on this forum who are interested in the history of the women who served in the field during the Civil War? I haven't noticed any recent comments about them. I really admire these women. My favorites are ones who raised their own companies and led them. I also find women in cavalry and artillery especially interesting. Both of these required extra skills and training...such as swordsmanship skill and being able to ride and shoot on horseback. The demands of being an artillerist would be very tough to master for a woman of those times. One woman rose to the rank of major! None went higher as far as is known. I chuckle to myself trying to imgaine that one of the well known generals was actually a woman...most likely one of the shorter and younger ones. Such a thing might be easier to pull off as a quartermaster, for example, rather than an actual field commander. The one who captures my imagination the most is Loreta Velasquez, but there are many others such as ones who fulfilled all the rigors of infantry soldiers and hid the fact that they were pregnant until they gave birth right in camp. That is such a stunning thing. How did they ever manage such a feat?
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| Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 03:59 am |
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13th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Dear Cleburne et al. You'll be pleased to know that a documentary on Velazquez, "Rebel" will hopefully be featured on PBS in the fall. It's been a long time coming as the producer had a hard time raising funds, quel surprise. I just found Annie Etheridge Hooks's gravesite the other night, a double marker with her husband, in Arlington Cemetery. See http://www.findagrave.com. One day when I have the time and energy, I'd like to begin a campaign to award her the Medal of Honor. She was in 26 battles with the Army of the Potomac, on the field most of the time, as basically a battlefield medic. See my "Springing to the Call" website, go to Documents and see my transcription of Mary Ann Pitman's deposition given to a US provost marshal. But what I left out was the questioning at the end where she discusses Nathan Bedford Forrest and makes an offer to help capture him. Go to the ORA cited, it's online via Cornell Univ. The saddest case I know of is from the Chicago Tribune--a reporter found a 13 year old drummer girl wounded in the hospital. She enlisted with her 3 brothers, as their parents had died. By the time she was wounded all of her brothers had been killed. CKL
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| Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 02:41 pm |
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14th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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cklarson wrote: The saddest case I know of is from the Chicago Tribune--a reporter found a 13 year old drummer girl wounded in the hospital. She enlisted with her 3 brothers, as their parents had died. By the time she was wounded all of her brothers had been killed. That is heartbreaking. I wonder whatever became of her. Orphans had a rough, rough time of it in those days. These days too, come to think of it. Pittman is an interesting woman too. She actually rode with Forrest, as I understand it. She would have had to be an excellent cavalrywoman in order to meet his standards. I didn't know, however, that she ever offered to help catch him! Ms Larson, you are very well informed on these matters. I have a question if you don't mind. I've been rereading my copy of "They Fought Like Demons." The word rape is mentioned only once in the entire book! That staggers my imagination. I just can't believe that there is only one recorded instance of attempted rape ( and the book does say "attempted") in the entire four years of the Civil War. My own guess is that many young women who would be discovered in the military dressed as males would face a trial by fire, assault at the very least if not actual rape. Why would there be no record anywhere of such abuses? Women in the military today, even women officers and officer candidates, face abuse from males. Why would the Civil War have been any different? Last edited on Wed May 13th, 2009 02:42 pm by CleburneFan |
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| Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 06:03 am |
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15th Post |
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cklarson Member
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| Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 04:06 pm |
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16th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Fascinating discussion. It certainly covers many aspects of the subject of rape both in the military and out of it. What a horrific story of the woman POW who was raped while suffering from the thoes of cholera! I guess the dumba** who raped her didn't think he would get it too. I certainly hope he did! I have considered this problem and thought perhaps some of the women who entered the military would not have been enticing tragets for rape being that at least some were mannish in aspect and deportment---cursing, gambling, drunking and brawling. But others were said to be very comely, even beautiful. The biggest "sins" they committed were wearing men's clothing and developing deep tans from constant exposure to the sun. I suspect the reason wearing men's clothing was considered such an affront is that it meant a "lowly" woman was wearing the markers of a privileged class--males. It would be as if a slave had somehow dyed his skin white and was "passing" as the putative "higher" class of slave owners. Thus a woman suddenly became entitled to the rights and privileges of a man, but all she had done to earn these rights was change her clothes! After all, the males had earned the right by dint of having been BORN males. I laughed at references to women being arrested for the crime of wearing men's clothes. That was the only charge their captors could think of. Why would it be a crime? Only because a woman was falsely assuming a higher rank in society's scale of human value. That is what I surmise. Another possible reason a woman in the military was less subject to being raped than in today's military (If indeed that was the case) is that the men of those times thought twice about raping a woman who had unquestionably demonstrated that she could shoot, swing a sword, ride horseback in cavalry charges, shoot artillery and possible field dress foraged live stock. Men weren't accustomed to a woman's possessing such martial skills then. I imagine it gave them pause. But I also imagine that rape was greatly under-reported in Victorian times to "protect" the victim from others knowing she had been violated. In those times the shame of rape was very much on the woman, just as even now when people still are known to comment of a rape victim,"She was asking for it. Look how she was dressed. Look how she behaved. She was drunk. She was a skank," and so on. Thank you Ms Larson for taking the time to post all that research material. I learned a lot. It was all food for thought. Last edited on Thu May 14th, 2009 04:08 pm by CleburneFan |
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| Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 06:42 am |
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17th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Dear Cleburne, A couple of more thoughts. I'm not so sure rape was so under reported although as whole I'm sure it was. The reasons are: 1) women were chaperoned or supposed to be and while dating not often left alone with a suitor; 2) in the army, as the one example shows, rape was a capital offense which might have served as a deterent. As to the former, some writers have claimed that the chaperone bit was scriptural "the Pauline restriction"--not even sure what St. Paul saying that refers to. But I think more to the point was that in cities like NYC, the streets were so dark, with criminals lurking, and carriages abounding, to say nothing of pigs and stray cows, that a woman did need an escort. So it was assumed that if a woman was out alone she didn't come from a good enough family to provide her an escort, at least at night. In the Midwest on the other hand, most families were young so there were not enough men to go around to escort women. Hence, the women drove carriages, rode horses, and rowed canoes. In So. IL, women raced in mixed gender horse races even (see Mary Logan's memoir). As to wearing men's dress, contrary to some scholars who seem to think that these women were outrageous and way out on the limb of feminine thinking, again, the real point was that they weren't stupid. It did not take a genius to figure out that just by changing clothes one won: freedom, independence, physical protection, a chance at high paying jobs, ability to travel, etc. Before the war, Emma Edmonds posed as a male bookseller in Hartford, had her own carriage and the time of her life. She was the most popoular date in town! CKL
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| Posted: Fri May 15th, 2009 01:35 pm |
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18th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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Plus, men's clothing was far more comfortable and far more practical than women's clothing at those times. Even these times, in fact! Who wants to wear six inch heels and how comfortable are push up bras and panty hosereally, especially in the summer heat? Men were and are much smarter about clothing. They don't subject themsleves to such torture, although Hubby does say a necktie is the ultimate torture. He refuses to wear one except under the most extreme circumstances that require it for decorum.
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| Posted: Sat May 16th, 2009 01:15 am |
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19th Post |
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CleburneFan Member
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It occured to me this afternoon that the women of the Civil War military deserve a monument of their own... a big monument. Washington DC would be a good place for it. Arlington Cemetery would be another place. The monument could have several large sides. Known names of women who served and their aliases could be on one side. Maybe Union women on one side and Conferate women on another side. Women who are unknown could have a special plaque for unknown women Civil War solidiers. Then their could also be a plaque for the women who served in the war but were never detected as female soldiers. Of course, their names and numbers are not known.
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| Posted: Sun May 17th, 2009 07:34 am |
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20th Post |
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cklarson Member
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Dear Cleburne et al., Although not specifically meant for soldiers, there is a very large monument to the women of the CW in Washington, D. C., but most are clueless. Any guess as to what or where it might be? Then there is the Women's Military Memorial in Arlington, dedicated to all military women and the Vietnam nurses' memorial near the Korean Memorial. Again, my first priority would be getting a couple of women medaled: Mary Bickerdyke, Sanitary Commission, not sure what as she was not in the military per se, although perhaps her stint as matron of Gayoso Hospital in Memphis would make her a civilian employee, therefore eligible for ?; and Annie Etheridge, as noted above. CKL
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