Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > Civil War Preservation > The Wilderness and Chancellorsville Battlefields under attack


The Wilderness and Chancellorsville Battlefields under attack - Civil War Preservation - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 02:57 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
mikenoirot
Member


Joined: Fri Aug 1st, 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 75
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

145 years ago, US Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant's Army of the Potomac fought Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia in the Battle of the Wilderness.  While the battle was considered to a draw, with Grant pushing farther south, many Americans died fighting this battle.  Some of the wounded soldiers would be burned alive in the "wilderness" as artillery shells set the woods on fire.

Today, another battle is taking place in the Wilderness.  Wal-Mart is planning to build a 141,000 square foot Super Center adjacent to the battlefield.  Besides being a nasty blight on these glorious fields, it would also increase traffic along the already busy Orange Turnpike.  Since this ground was zoned commercial, we only have one chance to save the battlefield - convincing the Orange County officials that the battlefield is at risk - and with it tourism is at risk.

Please get involved.  Here is a link to an article on my blog, that details what's at risk, and what can be done.

http://thismightyscourge.com/2009/05/16/help-the-civil-war-preservation-trust-protect-the-wilderness-battlefield/
 



 Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 03:05 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Mike,

Thanks for posting this. We've been covering iy extesively in the NewsWire. As usual in that area (Orange County I believe), the more Civil War preservationists fight, the more obstinate the Board of Supervisors there gets. Still, we all have a duty to fight this.

BTW, don't know if you were aware, but we added yoiur blog to the CWi Best of the Blogs section the other day ( http://www.civilwarinteractive.com/Blogs.htm ). Believe yours is on page 4. On that page there's also an award gif should you decide to use it. Congrats.



 Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 09:28 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
HankC
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location:  
Posts: 517
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

and the threat to the battlefied is what, exactly?


HankC



 Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 12:37 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
mikenoirot
Member


Joined: Fri Aug 1st, 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 75
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Having a Wal-Mart Super-Center developed directly adjacent to the battlefield would be a terrible blight on the land.



 Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 12:50 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
barrydancer
Member


Joined: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008
Location: Norwalk, Connecticut USA
Posts: 135
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

This link shows a map of the area where the Wal-Mart will be located. 

Proposed Wal-Mart Site



 Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 02:05 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

We are fighting a much smaller battle about a rezoning issue in the twown that is right beside ours. The town council and mayor do not give a hoot about our concerns--that changing the zoning of a convent that never paid a dime of city tax in forty years to a commercial project which will seriously impact our residences and quality of life.

But attending every single town council meeting relevant to this has taught me one thing. Just let a big commerical project pop up and town councils virtually salivate at the prospect of taxes and jobs. Beauty, history, seemliness, peace and quiet, tranquility, green space and environment have absolutely no allure for town councils.

I suspecty that more and more Civil War battlefields will face this challenge as Civil War preservation as a priority pales beside economic issues.

Can Wal*Mart at least landscape their project so as to conceal it from sight as much as possible from visitors to the battlefield?



 Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 06:35 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
The Iron Duke
Member


Joined: Tue Jul 29th, 2008
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 333
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

We don't need another wally world with dead end retail jobs. It's sickening to see how Kennesaw Mountain has become surrounded by neighborhoods, apartments, and retail stores.



____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill


 Posted: Tue May 19th, 2009 01:22 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I totally agree with you, Iron Duke. That same thing is happening next door to us--an ugly commercial project bringing minimum wage jobs to a place that is now a green oasis in a concrete world. It will truly be "paving paradise to put up a parking lot." That is exactly what has happened to coastal Florida in the last fifty years.

All too few politicians care anything about preserving and respecting American history. Worse, I don't think they ever will. I'm kind of an insider here--my Hubby holds public office. :shock: We have had some "heated" discussions about preserving green spaces and historically significant areas.



 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 02:19 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
The Iron Duke
Member


Joined: Tue Jul 29th, 2008
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 333
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Did anyone watch 60 Minutes this past Sunday? They were interviewing Robert Gates and he made a comment that anyone in Washington who decides to take the road to humility doesn't have worry about anyone else blocking their way. I have little faith regarding the protection of our historical sites unless the politicians themselves somehow got something out of it. All they want is tax revenue to fund their pork projects while the rest of us get screwed over. This country is in serious need of our own Tribune of the Plebs.

Last edited on Wed May 20th, 2009 02:21 am by The Iron Duke



____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill


 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 02:25 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I really enjoyed that interview with Gates on 60 Minutes.



 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 02:27 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
The Iron Duke
Member


Joined: Tue Jul 29th, 2008
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 333
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Gates came across to me as a very geniune and sincere person. No wonder he hates Washington.



____________________
"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill


 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 03:16 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
HankC
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location:  
Posts: 517
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

so the 'threat' to the batlefield is pretty much non-existent...


HankC



 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 04:16 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
PvtClewell
Member


Joined: Wed Jun 13th, 2007
Location: North Carolina USA
Posts: 420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

HankC wrote:
so the 'threat' to the batlefield is pretty much non-existent...


HankC


I suppose it depends on how you define 'threat.'

But let's put it this way — when was the last time you saw a stand-alone Walmart? Once a Walmart goes in, then usually follow a host of smaller vendors and perhaps a couple of restaurants and suddenly you have a shopping center adjacent to the battlefield. Then convenience stores. Then traffic. Diesel fumes. And then a housing development.

All you have to do is look a few miles down the road to see what has happened to Salem Church, which has been virtually gobbled up by commercial development. Even Chancellorsville, to my mind, is not quite the same as it once was.

http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/salem.htm

In my mind, battlefields should be repositories of history, reflection, retrospection, education and adventure. It's harder to get that when you're dodging 18-wheelers with smiley faces painted on them.



 Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 04:20 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
TimK
Member
 

Joined: Thu Apr 10th, 2008
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 311
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I don't have the CWPT maps in front of me at the moment, but - I believe the threat to the battlefield is very real. It is not a threat to the existing National Park, except adding unnecessarily to the blight of the land.

There are other places to build a WalMart in an area that already has three such stores, and also numerous other shopping venues and malls. Ever since the Ferry Farm fiasco, I refuse to shop at WalMart.



 Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 05:28 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
Colt1851
Member


Joined: Sat May 30th, 2009
Location: Bethlehem , Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Here is an interesting article from the Gettysburg Times.  http://www.gettysburgtimes.com/articles/2009/05/30/news/local/doc4a1fbae8546c4462728157.txt  It is about how the traffic in Gettysburg is expected to increase significantly in the coming years.  Alot of the traffic is going to be from large trucks delivering goods.  I think this article relates to this issue of the Wilderness Walmart.  I like that it points out that the revenue brought in by the stores, etc. does not cover the cost of maintaining the roads.  I really think that most people don't realize how much more wear and tear that trucks cause, than just normal automobile traffic (lets not forget the wonderful sound of air brakes.) 

I live in an area that used to be covered in farmland.  Little by little, we've had a mall here, a shopping center there and now distribution centers are all over the place.  Let me tell you, the tractor trailers really tear up the roads.  Just take a look at the roads that have the signs that indicate "No Trucks Except Local Delivery."  Take note of how infrequently they're resurfaced and repaired as opposed to the other roads.  
The road by my development is over 20 years old. It takes alot of traffic, not just because of the neighborhood and schools, but also traffic just passing through.  I have been living in this house for 10 years.  I don't remember that road ever needing to be repaved (the road is about 25 years old & I have lived in the area for 35 years.) If you turn off the highway and go in the opposite direction on that same road, toward the distribution centers, the road is bumpy, rutted and marked with pot holes.  Figure it out for yourselves.  Vehicles don't just roll across the surface of the streets.  The heavier they are, the more damage they cause to it.

The last thing I'd like to say is in response to the Walmart affecting the battlefield itself:  I agree that since it is just across the street from the NPS land it might not effect it directly.  My response to those who feel that way is this:  What you're saying is that it'd be okay with you if we tear up the land across from your home and build a shopping center.  We can put an entrance right in front of your house.  Or maybe you'd be okay if a big shopping center is built adjacent to your vacation home or a public beach.  What's the big deal? You can still sit outside and relax (just watch out for those flying cigarette butts!)



 Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 08:01 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
mikenoirot
Member


Joined: Fri Aug 1st, 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 75
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Colt1851:
I couldn't have put it any better. The Wal-Mart needs to be stopped. There is plenty of great commercial real estate in the Fredericksburg area. Certainly they can find another good spot for one of their stores.



 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 02:07 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
HankC
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location:  
Posts: 517
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Colt1851 wrote:
What you're saying is that it'd be okay with you if we tear up the land across from your home and build a shopping center.  We can put an entrance right in front of your house.  Or maybe you'd be okay if a big shopping center is built adjacent to your vacation home or a public beach.  What's the big deal? You can still sit outside and relax (just watch out for those flying cigarette butts!)



Yes, apparently, the elected Board of Supervisors thinks so...

 

HankC



 Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 11:54 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
Colt1851
Member


Joined: Sat May 30th, 2009
Location: Bethlehem , Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 3
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Yes, that's true.  Apparently the elected supervisors do feel that way.  How many people pay much attention to who is running in those elections?  Most people don't have any idea about people who run for those positions.  I know I'm guilty of that too.  I can't tell who holds that kind of position in my area.   Let's face it, people don't pay much attention to elections like that.  Then again, I don't think too many people paid much attention this past November either, but I digress.

Another thing that worries me is this, how long will it be before they try to widen route 3 through the Chancellorsville Battlefield or build a by-pass.  If this Walmart is built, we're going to have to fight that Chancellorsville preservation battle all over again.  I haven't really seen anyone mention that.  There hasn't been much mention of this increasing the traffic through there. If there is enough traffic for them to want to widen route 3 or build a by-pass now, what will they say if there is a Walmart and a shopping center built a couple miles down the road? 

I'm still amazed how people can nag and brag about being "green" and then turn right around and have no problem with another shopping center being built on unspoiled land.  I guess the real green they want is $$.



 Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 03:59 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
19th Post
TimHoffman01
Member


Joined: Wed Nov 9th, 2005
Location: Mechanicsville, Virginia USA
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Now that this has been voted in (by the county anyway), my father and I were chatting about this the other night. Apparently there are a lot of generally disgusted folks in the area (he lives in Stafford County up Rt. 17), seeing as how there are three existing Wal*Marts in the area.

The actual threat to the battlefield itself wasn't the store, but the traffic more than anything else. In 1990 we moved into the Fredericksburg area. It now takes at least 30 minutes most times to get from the I-95 exit to just past Salem Church to where the majority of stores stop for a while (maybe 3 miles). There is no possibility of widening Rt.3 through this area unless they put businesses out of business. Politically, that simply 'ain't happening.

Widening it through the Chancellorsville battlefield area is more problematic. There are trees on both sides through there and they are selling off farm land to houses quite quickly it seems, but important to note that the National Park Service owns the land on both sides of Rt. 3. It will literally take an act of Congress to widen it there. Leading to the question: How much traffic can it really support? It is moderately busy there now. More traffic will make it actually more difficult for folks to visit the battle fields, some of the sites are literally pull-offs on the side of the road. Visiting could be made dangerous. That does not support tourism as the Orange Cty. supervisors claim they would like to do.



 Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 07:51 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
20th Post
Old Sorrel
Member


Joined: Thu Mar 15th, 2007
Location: Valley Forge, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 66
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I visited both the Chancellorsville and Fredericksburg battlefields this year and was very disappointed in the preservation efforts of those 2 battlefields. You would think these 2 battlefields.......Lee's 2 greatest victories...would have been preserved a little better. The last thing Chancellorsville battlefield needs is another intrusion on the battlefield.....the people their need to take names and vote the fools out who support this terrible idea.



 Current time is 02:36 amPage:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > Civil War Preservation > The Wilderness and Chancellorsville Battlefields under attack
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.4414 seconds (8% database + 92% PHP). 28 queries executed.