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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > Seeing the Elephant |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > Seeing the Elephant |
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| Seeing the Elephant | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29th, 2009 10:50 pm |
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1st Post |
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Doc C Member 
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I'm constantly amazed when visiting battlefields (Gettysburg, Antietam, Fredericksburg, etc.) how these individuals, whether north or south, could step off and march forward. For instance, the Picketts-Trimble-Pettegrew charge on Gettysburgs' 3rd day. Many of these soldiers were present at Fredericksburg and had seen the devastating effects of a frontal charge on a prepared position. My point of this post has a couple of points - 1)what was the personal motivation of these veterans and 2)could or would modern day soldiers do the same thing. The second point comes from a recent conversation with an Iraq War veteran over an adult beverage. By the way, anytime you have the opportunity to do so, do something to express your gratitude to these veterans, whether it's buying them a beer, coke or just saying we appreciate your service. I'm Back Doc C
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 10:49 am |
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2nd Post |
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javal1 Grumpy Geezer 
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Good to see you Doc. As to #1, many of the soldier's journals and diaries I read seem to agree as to the motivation of what these men did. In most cases it wasn't " I believe in (insert favorite Northern cause here)" or "I believe in (insert favorite Southern cause here)". It was more personal than that. In the Civil War, the guy on your right may very well have been your neighbor. Your Mom probably knows his Mom. The guy on your left may be your hometown's preacher's son. To refuse to do as ordered, or show cowardice in any way, directly affected not only your reputation, but that of your family and friends at home. If you shirk your duty, would you be able to face your family and friends once the war was over? Worse yet, would you be able to face the mother of your buddy who died doing his duty while you ran? Add that to the "unit cohesivness" that naturally develops through training, etc. and I think the option of not doing what you're ordered may have be worse than doing it. As for #2, that's a question I've always asked myself. Bravery has many faces. Would today's soldiers stand in an open field 50 yards from a well-armed enemy and trade fire? I just don't know. But the face of combat has changed, and we'll probably never know.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 02:54 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Mark Member
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I think Javal hit it on the head pretty nicely, but on point two... I've seen soldiers do some pretty heroic things under fire in Iraq, but your question brought up a story my college history advisor told me: he had just come back from the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and he took some of his subordinates on a tour of Shiloh battlefield to discuss the principles of war. He was describing the Confederate assaults on the hornets nest and one of his guys said, "hell Sir, we couldn't get our guys to cross an open field like that to attack a position." Just food for thought, but Javal is right, two different times and places can't be compared properly. Cheers! Mark
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:37 pm |
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4th Post |
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fedreb Member 
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Fifty years after the ACW, in WW1, soldiers were marching across open fields into the teeth of machine guns for all the same reasons as Javal gives above.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:58 pm |
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5th Post |
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TimK Member
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Hey, Doc. Glad to see you're posting again, especially since college football is here again. I've often pondered the exact question you posed. Where does this courage come from? Javal, I think, explained where a lot of it came from. But what about the courage of the people making the decisions for the frontal attacks? As a lot of us armchair generals like to discuss strategies and "what ifs", very, very, few of us have had to make the decisions to send men to what will surely be certain death to many people, forever changing the course of history. Another thing that I think about is when, at Shiloh for example, when talking about Fallen Timbers, we read about a small skirmish that totaled only about 200 casualties as if it is insignificant. Is a casualty at Fallen Timbers any less significant than a casualty at Shiloh just because it wasn't at a "sexy" battle? Probably not to the soldiers family. Sorry to ramble. I guess this thread made me think again about the courage of most all soldiers (like the first 20 minutes of "Saving Private Ryan") and how it is so easy to dissect their actions from the comfort of our chairs in front of our computers. Last edited on Sun Aug 30th, 2009 03:59 pm by TimK |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 05:42 pm |
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6th Post |
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19bama46 Member
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TimK wrote: Hey, Doc. Glad to see you're posting again, especially since college football is here again. Take the comparison a step further... what would be the public reaction to a "skirmish" that cost 200 casulties in Iraq or Afghanistan... Ed
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30th, 2009 07:28 pm |
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7th Post |
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Doc C Member
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Thanks all for the discussion. Good points made by all. As to #1 - did the behavior of your fellow company mates factor in to your motivation? #2) - modern day combat is very different from that of the cw. Only a complete idiot would do what those soldiers of the cw era did in todays army. Though I've never served in the military it would seem to me that combat tactics essentially change with the type of weoponry available. By the way, congrats from all, I just became a grandpa earlier this summer. I've seen well over 5,000 newborns over my 30+ year carreer and must say my new grandson is in the top 10 I've ever seen (no prejudice intended). Doc C
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| Posted: Thu Sep 3rd, 2009 07:57 pm |
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8th Post |
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susansweet3 Member 
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Welcome back Doc , glad to see some of the old guard posting again. Missed all of you guys here. Bell Wiley in Johnny Reb talks about stepping out and marching into the enemy fire . I remember he said one Reb held his flying pan in front of his face for protection. He was so scared but didn't want to let his fellow soldiers and friends down. Sadly later the young soldier was found slain. The skillet no help at all.
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