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CBF Hijack, what can you do? - General Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Tue Feb 16th, 2010 04:39 pm
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Johan Steele
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What can you, should YOU do in regards to the hijack of the CBF by groups such as the klan and other White Supremecy organizations?

For myself, I don't view it as my issue, I get in enough hot water growling about their hijack of the US flag.  But what can a civil war aficiando do about it, what should you do about it?

Like it or not the likes of the klan will now forever be thought of with the CBF, can that be changed through the actions of those who see it as an abomination?

There have been some who have fought back, re-enacting units who expel klan & other white supremecy members from their ranks when they are discovered.  There have been living historians that have given the order "About Face" when klanners parade by thus literally turning their backs upon the organization they see as desecrating their flag.  I applaud such actions.

 

Or is it far too late, is the CBF forever stained by their cowardice, hate and bile?



 Posted: Tue Feb 16th, 2010 06:11 pm
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Doc C
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JS

I've thought about joining some of the groups which represent those who had ancestors in the civil war but other than those orgainizations related to civil war medicine and surgery I've hesitated because of the flag controversy and the sometimes hateful/racist views of some of their members. Even though they probably represent an extremely small number of the total membership.

Doc C



 Posted: Tue Feb 16th, 2010 06:24 pm
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ole
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This, I think, is what javal meant. The SCV and UDC are mostly people who just want to recognize and remember the exemplary service of the Confederate soldier. Whatever he fought for, he is an exemplary symbol of an American.

And the CBF was destined to mark his grave.

That there are some rogues about who use the flag to promote some reprehensible causes makes me no nevermind. They're simply scum. But they took it and made it their symbol as well. Here, in the CW community, we can look at the flag and see the men who fought under it. But we won't soon amount to a swing vote. In the larger community, the CBF is now seen in another light. It got smeared. The skinheads, klan, Aryan Nation and the whole passel of them have soiled it.

"They" used it without much protest.

Take it back or give it up.

Ole

Last edited on Tue Feb 16th, 2010 06:34 pm by ole



 Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:22 pm
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19bama46
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ole wrote: This, I think, is what javal meant. The SCV and UDC are mostly people who just want to recognize and remember the exemplary service of the Confederate soldier. Whatever he fought for, he is an exemplary symbol of an American.

And the CBF was destined to mark his grave.

That there are some rogues about who use the flag to promote some reprehensible causes makes me no nevermind. They're simply scum. But they took it and made it their symbol as well. Here, in the CW community, we can look at the flag and see the men who fought under it. But we won't soon amount to a swing vote. In the larger community, the CBF is now seen in another light. It got smeared. The skinheads, klan, Aryan Nation and the whole passel of them have soiled it.

"They" used it without much protest.

Take it back or give it up.

Ole


Well, we ain't gonna give it up!... so the other option becomes take it back... I think the only way to do that is to make a fuss every time it is misused. I may be the only person on this board to have written a letter about the flag to then Senator Obama... of course, he didn't pay a lot of attention to what I was saying, but what else is new..



 Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:57 pm
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TimK
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Bama - if it is any consolation, I pay attention to what you say.

Personally, I think it may be too late. There are too many ignorant morons out there that think that the Bugs Bunny cartoon is the actual account of the Civil War. Without historical knowledge, the only way most people have seen the flag is as a symbol of hate. Way, WAY too bad. Just an opinion.

But this had me thinking. Since people want to pay respect to their southern heritage, which there does not seem to be a problem with, why not fly the Stars and Bars and not the CBF?

Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2010 04:02 pm by TimK



 Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 04:42 pm
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19bama46
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TimK wrote: Bama - if it is any consolation, I pay attention to what you say.

Personally, I think it may be too late. There are too many ignorant morons out there that think that the Bugs Bunny cartoon is the actual account of the Civil War. Without historical knowledge, the only way most people have seen the flag is as a symbol of hate. Way, WAY too bad. Just an opinion.

But this had me thinking. Since people want to pay respect to their southern heritage, which there does not seem to be a problem with, why not fly the Stars and Bars and not the CBF?


I do. I live in Springfield, Illinois, hometown of Abraham Lincoln, and I own a business here. I do not fly the CBF, except in my home, but I do fly a 1st national on my vehicle, along with the Stars N Stripes. Most people have no idea what it is and when someone asks, I get to do a history lesson...

IMHO the 1st National is a  good flag to fly. Most of the CBF were used by the ANV, not all, but most. Of course,there were units from all the states represented in the ANV, but the 1st National, Hardee's Pattern, and others  continued to be used in many other units.



 Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 04:50 pm
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Mark
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Bama and TimK, that is what the state of Georgia seemed to do in 2003 when there was a stink about the CBF being part of the state flag. If you look at it now it is very reminencent of the 1st National, but no one seems to notice or object. I'm not sure if the likeness was intended or not, but I did find it interesting.

-Mark



 Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 05:46 pm
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susansweet3
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Mark I am sure it was intended but for the average person it doesn't jump out at them like the battleflag. 

Susan



 Posted: Mon Apr 12th, 2010 02:52 pm
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IrishBrigade
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It's a very interesting subject, let me give you a non-American point of view, the Confederate Battle Flag is seen as the "Rebel" flag, doesn't really matter what you're rebelling against. Unfortunately it is used by Extremist groups usually associated with white supremecy. The fact that it wasn't the Confederate national flag is a point missed by most. I once considered getting a CBF tattoo and posted on a Tattoo forum asking for opinions, the best response summed it up for me - He accepted that I knew what the flag really meant and knew my stuff on the war but did I really want to explain that to everyone who saw the Tattoo?? The answer was and still is no.

Symbols are hijacked, the swaztika and over here the term Irish Republican is associated with Terrorism and rebellion rather then Independance and self determination.

I'm not sure how you go about reclaiming the flag, education yes, but there are those who don't want to be educated. Legislative change could be effective but it does seem somewhat un-American to tell people what flags they can and cannot wave. I think you will have to accept that when some people see the CBF they are automatically going to think of racism.



 Posted: Tue Apr 13th, 2010 07:32 pm
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Old Sorrel
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This is an interesting topic. My question is, and I've be trying to figure this out for sometime now, is....why is it just the CBF that gets all the criticism about being a racist symbol because of the KKK and Skin heads. Those hate groups also burn a cross, they also fly the American flag, and they also use the bible to quote from at meetings. So why is it that those who want to claim racism only use the CBF as their example? I personally dont look at the CBF as a racist symbol. But I'd love to hear a logical explanation as to why the CBF is the only one to take all the heat.

Good Day Peeps



 Posted: Tue Apr 13th, 2010 07:38 pm
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19bama46
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Excellent questions and I would really like to see some answers to them

 

thanks

 

Ed



 Posted: Thu Apr 15th, 2010 11:26 pm
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ole
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I personally don't look at the CBF as a racist symbol. But I'd love to hear a logical explanation as to why the CBF is the only one to take all the heat.
I don't either, Sorrel, but lots and lots of people do -- lots more than the few of us who know what it represents to our little group. And I'm never too sure why a particular individual flies it in his yard. However, when the tattoos and bumper stickers and shaved heads come out, I get a pretty good idea.

I'd be personally in favor of summary execution for anyone misusing it, but that does sound a bit extreme, doesn't it?

The PC do-gooders and the racist fringe have thoroughly hijacked it and I can't see how it can be taken back. Nothing short of getting the President and the Congress to put their weight behind a campaign might salvage it. Don't hold your breath.

Ole



 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 04:45 pm
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Old Blu
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No Confederate flags here.  That is good.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1266895/White-supremacists-rally-sparks-violent-clashes-Los-Angeles.html




 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 05:16 pm
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ole
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Yes. That is good. Also prudent.



 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 05:41 pm
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susansweet3
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Apparently the group here in L.A. has a new flag.  My first thought when I saw it on the news is why are they flying a Cuban flag.  Then as it unfurled more I saw the rest of it.  By the way that was one ulgy group of people . 



 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 05:54 pm
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Old Blu
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susansweet3 wrote: Apparently the group here in L.A. has a new flag.  My first thought when I saw it on the news is why are they flying a Cuban flag.  Then as it unfurled more I saw the rest of it.  By the way that was one ulgy group of people .

Now it looks like they are making the US flag a hate symbol.



 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 06:04 pm
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susansweet3
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Oh this group always carries a bunch of US flags.  They are always say this is their country.  etc.  I always laugh and wonder how many of them are only a generation or two from their family arriving at Ellis Island. 

I also wonder how many of them would have ended up in the death camps in Germany if their families had stayed in Europe.  Some must be Eastern European descent.



 Posted: Tue Apr 27th, 2010 01:20 pm
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IrishBrigade
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I'll attempt to answer Old sorrel's questions, the bible, cross and USA flag are not symbols of rebellion even though more people have fought over them then for any Confederate flag. The CBF is a flag of rebellion, that was it's original point, hence in my view anyway why it's always linked to non-conformity. It's such a shame, it's one of worlds nicer flags.



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