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| Polarizing Figures | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 03:50 pm |
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1st Post |
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TimK Member
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It has been said that if you don't want to start an argument, don't bring up religion or politics. I think that if you don't want to start an argument concerning the Civil War, it is not a good idea to bring up whether you like or dislike certain personalities. With a Mount Rushmore type theme, I think the four most polarizing characters of the Civil War era would be John Brown, Nathan Bedford Forrest, William T. Sherman, and probably Abraham Lincoln. These people are either loved or loathed. Are there other people that you would replace any of these people with - or maybe just like to add to the list?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 06:24 pm |
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2nd Post |
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fedreb Member 
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I would add George McClellan to that list and possibly Dan Sickles.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 06:31 pm |
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3rd Post |
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GeorgeM GeorgeM
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I would add the guerrilla leaders William Clarke Quantrill and Wiliam T. "Bloody Bil" Anderson.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 07:57 pm |
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4th Post |
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javal1 Grumpy Geezer 
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Braxton Bragg. And why Lincoln and not Davis?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 08:19 pm |
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5th Post |
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TimK Member
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javal1 wrote:Braxton Bragg. And why Lincoln and not Davis? Good question. I thought of Davis. My answer would be that Lincoln just evokes more pure emotion. People either seem to believe that he was the second person that could walk on water (unfrozen water that is), or he was a despot and tyrant. Do people have the same emotions concerning Davis? I also thought of Quantrill. What about Longstreet? Is he either a love or hate guy?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 08:56 pm |
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6th Post |
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Texas Defender Member 
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When Abraham Lincoln was elected president, it resulted in the secession of several states from the Union. Since Mr. Lincoln would not accept secession, and the seceding states would not accept reunification, the war was inevitable. The war was the ultimate polarization of one section of the country from the other, and thus Mr. Lincoln was the ultimate polarizing figure. On the question of whether or not there would be war, it didn't really matter who was elected President of the CSA. If you wish to make a list of polarizing figures who were less so than Abraham Lincoln, then of course Jefferson Davis makes the list. It would be an understatement to say that Mr. Davis had some critics within the Confederacy.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 09:09 pm |
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7th Post |
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javal1 Grumpy Geezer
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I understand that rationale TD. That's the Southern view. What isn't shouted quite so fervently is the nothern view - that Davis led a government of traitors who resented the threat that they may lose the right to hold others as slaves. Now you may agree or disagree, and it may or may not be my view. But the fact is that many northerners believe that and they're as sure of it as you are of your beliefs. To ignore Davis as a polarizing figure would be to ignore 1/2 of the views out there. I don't want this to become a discussion on causation. I find them monotonous and boring. But Davis' position and his views on whether there should be a guerilla war after J Johnston's surrender qualifies him as polarizing to many. Good topic Tim!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 09:39 pm |
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8th Post |
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Texas Defender Member
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I haven't overlooked Jefferson Davis as a polarizing figure. I'd place him very high up on a lengthy list if I made one. I simply said that Mr. Lincoln would occupy the number one position. Mr. Lincoln had aspirations for years to become President of the United States (Second only in zeal to those that Mrs. Lincoln had for him). When he was elected and the Union came apart, he led the northern war effort with considerable enthusiasm. As I've said before, a lesser man most likely would have failed in the attempt to bring the war to a successful conclusion from the northern side. Jefferson Davis had no aspirations to become President of the CSA. He dreaded taking on that duty, and would have been happier, I am certain, to have been appointed a Confederate general. As for: "Southern view" and :"Northern view," people will have their beliefs regardless of whether or not the facts back them up. Many in the north believed the story that Jefferson Davis was captured while wearing one of his wife's dresses. The truth of a matter is often less important to many than the: "View." Certainly, many northerners were able to carry the war to the south with great ferocity because they regarded the Confederates as being traitors. Some even wanted to hang not only Mr. Davis, but also General Lee and many others. If that had happened , then they would have gotten the guerrilla war that you alluded to.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 09:59 pm |
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9th Post |
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TimK Member
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I think I'm okay with TD's rationale that Lincoln could be the most polarizing figure - I'm not looking for who was right or wrong - just the personality that evokes the most emotion. Lincoln certainly could fill that requirement. But who would be next? Would it be Davis? Or would it be somebody like John Brown? I still like the list I put in the first post.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29th, 2011 11:26 pm |
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10th Post |
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Doc Ce Member
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How about Jubal Early? Doc C
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| Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 11:54 am |
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11th Post |
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pender Member 
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TimK, I will agree with your list. The only change I would make would be to substitute John Brown for Phil Sheridan. Pender
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| Posted: Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 12:20 pm |
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12th Post |
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PW Hess Member
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WT Sherman on the Union side, and NB Forrest on the southern side Nearly 150 yrs and people are still carping about the 2 of them........
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| Posted: Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 12:22 pm |
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13th Post |
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PW Hess Member
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And what about US Grant?? The Grant/Lee arguments will go on forever (I'm a Grant man myself...)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15th, 2011 02:15 pm |
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14th Post |
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Mark Member
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I would just add two to your list Tim. They were a lot more polarizing then than they are now. Benjamin Butler and John C. Fremont. Mark
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15th, 2011 03:08 pm |
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15th Post |
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Old North State Member
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As polarizing figures, I would add to Jefferson Davis all the others of our Southern leaders in Congress who, I believe, saw the establishment of a separate country as a way to elevate their own status (power) -- bigger fish in a smaller pond. {That goes double for some of the S.C. leaders.) As the war began, Stephen A. Douglas noted that he had observed them plotting this within the halls of Congress. This realization was one factor in his strong support for the war. Douglas knew about political power and recognized grabs for such when he saw them; i.e. 'it takes one to know one.'
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