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 Posted: Thu Jan 19th, 2012 12:40 pm
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csamillerp
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baseball has always been a passion of mine, i've played from the time i was 8 until i graduated high school. I dont really care for today's baseball, but i really enjoy  baseball from the early 20th century. My favorite is Ty Cobb as he was my fathers great uncle. I dont think todays players could compete against lou gehrig, babe ruth, ty cobb, joe dimaggio, jackie robinson, jimmie foxx and hank greenberg. they played in heavy leather shoes, wool outfits and baseballs that werent always perfectly round. Today the players have ulta lightwieght clothing, cleets that are custom designed for the individual player that is also made out of the lightest material available. And its hard as hell to hit a homerun, but imagine hitting one with a ball that isn't perfectly rounded!  To the avid baseball fans on this site, what  are ya'lls opinions? Who's your favorite baseball player of all time? And i always love to learn new interesting facts about the golden era of baseball.



 Posted: Thu Jan 19th, 2012 07:50 pm
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BHR62
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I was a hardcore baseball fan growing up and still am to a degree. They definitely played for love of game in the early days. God knows it wasn't for the money like now.

Babe Ruth was a giant amongst his peers. Nobody has ever dominated the sport as he did and never will. When he retired with 714 homers nobody was above 300. The guy batted for average also. Plus until he was made into a full time hitter he was the best pitcher in baseball. It was highly controversal when the Yanks converted him into a hitter.

But to be fair to the current players they see different pitches nowadays. They don't see the same pitcher as often as the old timers did. So they can't get to know them as well. They play at night and travel from east to west coast. So there are pros and cons to today's baseball compared to the old time baseball.

I'm a hardcore Cardinals fan....loved seeing Freese become a hero in his hometown last October.  Boyhood dream lived out!

Favorite all time player.....Ruth...for reasons I mentioned.  Current...was Pujols until he turned traitor....now it is Freese.

Last edited on Thu Jan 19th, 2012 07:52 pm by BHR62



 Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 12:57 pm
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csamillerp
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lol, yeah i was an atlanta fan but when they destroyed their team by letting Gary sheffield, lopez and maddox go i pretty much quit following them. Ty cobb is my favorite also because of his style of play... he didnt just use his talent to exceed he also used strategy. I remember reading that he would try crazy almost impossible plays just to throw the opponents off. One of the things i read was how he was standing on second, called over to the pitcher and told him he was going to steal third, and sure enough as soon as the pitcher threw the pitch he stole 3rd, while on third he called over to the pitcher and told him he was going to steal home. When the pitcher started the windup Cobb just leisurely strolled toward home, the pitcher threw to home, cobb continued to stroll toward home until only a few feet away, then jumped and kicked the catcher in the face, allowing him to score. Cobb added excitment to the game, no matter how much people hated him they had to respect him. He still holds the career batting average.



 Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 07:41 pm
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BHR62
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In the movie, "Cobb," it showed Ty Cobb sitting on a bench sharpening his spikes....he did this as the opposing players were walking past him to go out on the field...lol  He was definitely a character!

 



 Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 08:24 pm
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HankC
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2 great dancing fans :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHXCGL5HUDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFnCO00kHjs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-EAVxkT_uc&feature=related



 Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 08:24 pm
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csamillerp
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i saw that movie its a very good one. i know cobb had it out for babe, when all the attention went to hitting homers cobb started hitting them too just to prove a point, came very close to leading the league in homers if im not mistakened.



 Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2012 10:57 am
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BHR62
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Cobb was a fierce competitor and he wanted the game played traditional style. Ruth comes along and forever changed the game of baseball with his power. It didn't go over well with Cobb. Ruth came along when Cobb's career was winding down didn't he? I know they played against each other but I was thinking Cobb was approaching retirement when Ruth took off.

People like to try and say so and so is the greatest ever. I think you have to look at the eras the oldtimers played in. Compare them to their peers. Ruth towered over the players of the 20's and 30's. Nobody even hit half the HRs he had when he retired with 714. The guy was a monster.  His training regimen was hot dogs, cold beer, and women.  If the guy had taken care of himself God knows what he would have accomplished.  But...he had a hell of a good time doing it!

I did get to meet a baseball star from the 1920 Cincinnati Reds one time in the early 80's. His name was Edd Roush. I got to talk to him for about an hour on his career. He showed me all kinds of stuff he had from baseball. I got his autograph. It was really cool talking to a Hall of Famer.

Last edited on Sat Jan 21st, 2012 11:02 am by BHR62



 Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2012 12:15 pm
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Texas Defender
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BHR62 and csamillerp-

  The statement that when Babe Ruth retired during the 1935 season, no one else had over 300 homeruns is incorrect. The man who hit behind Babe Ruth in the Yankee's batting order for many years, Lou Gehrig, had 378 homeruns by the end of the 1935 season.

Lou Gehrig Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

  Ty Cobb was famous for stealing bases and a having a bad temper, but he didn't hit a lot of homeruns. He never hit more than 12 in a single season, and had only 117 in a 24 year career. He did lead the American League in 1909 with nine homeruns.

  Babe Ruth began his career in the majors in 1914, and Ty Cobb retired from baseball after the 1928 season. They were opponents in the American League for 14 years.



 Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2012 02:48 pm
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BHR62
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Thanks Texas for the correction on the nearest competitor in HR's. But even still....714 to 378 is a huge disparity. Ruth had no mark to go against...he was competing with himself on HRs.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=ruthba01

Wow...I didn't realize Cobb and Ruth were in the league that long together. I thought at most 5 or 6 seasons.



 Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 03:12 am
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csamillerp
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Cobb was also known for his BA, the only year he hit lower then .320 was his rookie year. I dont think it's fair to say that there was a greatest in any era because what makes someone the greatest? Just homeruns? Just stolen bases? i think you could say Babe was the Greatest homerun hitter of his time and Cobb was the greatest hitter.



 Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 09:25 am
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BHR62
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If you were starting up a ballclub and you had a choice between Cobb or Ruth.....no matter who you pick you can't go wrong. Cobb was probably the best all around hitter, no offense to Ted Williams. He was cocky on the basepaths and backed up his trash talk. He set records in hits, runs, SB's, and had numerous batting titles. Probably the fiercest competitor to ever play the game.  Its too bad his teams weren't more competitive.  I know the Tigers went to the World Series 3 consecutive years early in his career but it seems like they didn't do much after that.

Ruth was also a good hitter. He hit for average and power. The players of his day were in awe of the distance of his HR's. Plus the fact that he was the best pitcher in baseball at one time is amazing.  The first 6 years of his 21 year career was as a pitcher.  He won over 20 games two or three times. He set a shutout record in World Series play by pitching 27 consecutive shut out innings.  The god's of baseball cursed the Red Sox for 87 years for their stupidity in trading Ruth to the Yankees. 1961 was a bad year for the Babe....Maris broke his season HR record....Ford broke his World Series shutout innings record.

Have you seen the movie, "*61"? Very good movie on what Roger Maris went through during the 1961 season. He was shown tremendous hostility to his assault on Babe's record. If Babe Ruth had been alive I don't think Maris would have got near the treatment he got. One of the best lines of the movie is at the end. About the only NY sportswriter that showed him support asked him if he thought he had earned peoples respect. Maris says...a man doesn't earn respect on the ballfield. Too bad current players don't follow that thinking.

Mickey Mantle's father and grandfather died at or near 40. Mickey thinking he doesn't have much time just parties it up to enjoy his life before 40. If he had taken care of himself....God only knows the numbers he would have put up.

Ted Williams....in the prime of his career enlists in the Army to go fight the Japanese.  He actually served in combat.  When Korea happens...he again goes off to fight.  The guy lost 5 years in the prime of his career....still hit over 500 HR's....last hitter to bat over .400.  You got to admire the self sacrifice he showed for his country.

Last edited on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 09:37 am by BHR62



 Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 01:43 pm
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csamillerp
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imagine if babe ruth had taken steriods like today's players... 714 homers, or 1428? lol



 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 11:21 pm
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HankC
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BHR62 wrote:
Mickey Mantle's father and grandfather died at or near 40. Mickey thinking he doesn't have much time just parties it up to enjoy his life before 40. If he had taken care of himself....God only knows the numbers he would have put up.


 

Mantle tore up his knee as a rookie in the world series and was never the same physically for the next *17* years...



 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 10:39 pm
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csamillerp
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howcome baseball lost it's luster? up until the 70's baseball was everything and now it's shadowed by football and basketball. any ideas why?



 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2012 12:08 am
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BHR62
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All the labor issues. They did enormous damage to the game. Pure greed by both sides. I still think baseball is by far a better sport than the NBA. The NFL has surpassed it. Last years series was one of the best. Course being a Cards fan makes me biased but it was pretty exciting. Baseball will always be a top sport though.



 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2012 12:55 am
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csamillerp
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people dont idolize over retired football players like they do baseball though doubt they ever will



 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2012 09:40 am
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BHR62
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Despite all the strikes and controversy's over the years baseball still holds its grip on Americans. No matter how much bitching people do at the sport it still sets attendance records every year. In the 70's I remember baseball was king. The other sports were just to watch when baseball season was over.

Baseball was played by the soldiers during the Civil War. The first year of the National League was 1876, the same year Custer got his command wiped out. General Grant was President Grant. The transcontinental railroad had just been finished. From there through all the trials and tribulations America has gone through....baseball has always been there.

The last 20 years there has been labor peace in baseball and I think it has greatly improved its image. The history of baseball endears its stars to us. You're right...the other sports don't have near the nostalgic pull of the old baseball stars. Greed is already destroying the other major sports. Baseball has stepped back from that abyss and finally got its act together.



 Posted: Fri Jan 27th, 2012 07:07 pm
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csamillerp
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Agreed, its crazy to think that Ty Cobb got paid something like $1500 for his 2nd season with detroit.



 Posted: Wed May 21st, 2014 12:40 pm
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wondering
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It was always a gentleman's game, cricket twinged with nastiness, our Civil War. Each spring I still feel it, deep down, like some kid on his bike to Little League.



 Posted: Wed May 21st, 2014 05:51 pm
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I don't know what that's like and I played Little League for two years. Never once rode my bike to practice or to a game. Of course that first year lived too far away for my folks to feel it was safe for me to ride my bike to practice or the games and the second year my dad was the coach and at the time we were literally living in a campground with my bike in storage at the time so it was a case of having to ride with him to practice and the games.

BHR62 wrote:
But to be fair to the current players they see different pitches nowadays. They don't see the same pitcher as often as the old timers did. So they can't get to know them as well. They play at night and travel from east to west coast. So there are pros and cons to today's baseball compared to the old time baseball.

To be fair, players like Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Tris Speaker, Christy Matherson, etc. weren't facing the same pitches players were facing just a few short decades before they came onto the scene either. Nor were they pitching them. I was watching a Mysteries at the Museum not so long ago and they were talking about how the early pitchers were just there really to give the batters the ball they wanted. The catcher was yards behind the plate and the pitchers was supposed to pitch nice, gentle underhanded pitches to ensure a hit. And if they didn't get exactly the kind of pitch they wanted a batter could basically call a do over. Might as well have been playing T-ball. It was pitches like the curveball that started to change the game in those early years, and baseball officials did try outlawing the curveball as a dishonest pitch.

I certainly don't know enough about the early years of baseball to know just how true that is. But could you imagine folks like Ruth, Aaron, or Bonds could have done if the pitching had remained like that while everything else in the game slowly became like it is today?

Last edited on Wed May 21st, 2014 06:19 pm by Hellcat



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