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 Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2012 04:44 pm
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dlaurencerogers
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Yes, Gen. Patrick Cleburne was a visionary. If Jefferson Davis had listened to Gen. Cleburne the South would have enlisted black soldiers in 1864 and perhaps had a chance to win the war. Instead, Cleburne was passed over for promotion and ostracized. This is spelled out in my book, "Apostles of Equality: The Birneys, the Republicans and the Civil War." Also, Confederate soldiers voted to accept blacks into their ranks, but the war ended within a month.



 Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2012 04:53 pm
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dlaurencerogers
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The question is: what kind of country would we have today without the righteousness of the Northern cause that preserved the Union? Or would we have two countries, one free and one slave, or just a slave nation as Union Gen. McClellan wanted? Arguing the righteousness of a cause that sought to allow one man to enslave another, unfortunately,had to be decided on the battlefields of the Civil War. Once it was over, even the Confederacy's most stellar patriot Robert E. Lee accepted the outcome and sought to have his national citizenship restored.



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 Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2012 07:15 pm
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dlaurencerogers
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I see what you mean.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2013 10:29 am
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Texas Defender
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  Since an advertiser has chosen to: "Rejuvenate" this thread at random, I'll take the opportunity to point out a few more facts (That have nothing to do with: "Lost Cause" ideology).

  While I can believe that many abolitionists could be called: "Apostles of Equality," that label certainly can't be given to the vast majority of white men during the 1860s. It can't be given to the vast majority in the north, or to the vast majority of Republicans, or even to Abraham Lincoln himself when he became president.

  During the Lincoln-Douglas debates, Mr. Lincoln said clearly that he did not consider the black man to be his equal, and that he wasn't in favor of giving blacks the vote. (By 1865, he was in favor of letting some: "Intelligent blacks" vote). When he became president in 1861, while he personally was against it, he was quite content to allow slavery to continue where it already existed. The Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 in reality freed no slaves as it only applied to those living in rebel held territory. Mr. Lincoln admitted that it was a war measure designed to deprive the Confederacy of manpower and thus weaken it further (See Conkling Letter).
 Letter to James Conkling  ("I issued the proclamation on purpose to aid you in saving the Union").


  On this thread, Mr. Rogers exalts the: "Righteousness" of the northern cause and implies that the war was fought to end slavery. I would maintain that very few Union soldiers would have said that they were fighting for that reason. The vast majority would have said that they were fighting to preserve the Union (Which many saw as the: "Outpost of freedom and democracy" in a world generally ruled by tyrants).

  The vast majority of Confederate soldiers would not have said that they were fighting to maintain the institution of slavery. As most saw it, they were fighting for their independence and to protect their territory which was being invaded. But Mr. Rogers sees those fighting for the cause of the CSA as in effect having as their object perpetuating slavery. He spouts nonsense about a southern culture that glorified the: "Code Duello" and was looking to fight a war to:" End the country that so many had compromised to establish." In actuality, the Confederates did not have as their objective to destroy the Government of the United States. They only wished to withdraw from it. Many prominent Confederates argued against secession before their states actually seceded. So, unlike what Mr. Rogers wrote, many did: "Dare to buck the tide of secessionist umbrage over the election of Lincoln." But in the end, their highest allegiance was to their states, their communities, their families, and their friends, and not to a Federal Government that they considered did not represent them

  I would contend that the northerners won the war due to a superiority of manpower and materiel (And to their more efficient use of their resources). The issue was not decided by some holy crusade to end:"The tide of racism and white supremacy of the day." Even with the passage of the 13th Amendment many months after the war ended, most white men, in both the north and the south, remained racists and white supremicists (Certainly by present standards). Nineteenth century attitudes were not suddenly transformed by the end of the CSA and the institution of slavery.

  Mr. Rogers complains that the history of the period is: "Muddled by propaganda" that he attributes to: "Lost Causers." But by his exultation over: "Righteous" northerners and his stereotypical condemnation of southerners that he considers to be petulant and evil, Mr. Rogers shows himself to be one of the propagandists.

Last edited on Fri Jan 18th, 2013 10:55 am by Texas Defender



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