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 Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2012 06:19 pm
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Hellcat
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I have a quick question. Does anyone know what the original colors of the locomotive the General were? I've been looking at model trains on the Lionel website as model railroading is a hobby of mine and one of the locomotives they have is the General but it's in green and black with gold trim. The colors just didn't feel right right so I've done a little looking around online and find it in red and black. But there again I have questions as late in the war the locomotive was deliberately destroyed, well more severely damaged, to keep it out of Federal hands and had to be repaired after the war. Which means it could have been repainted.

The red and black scheme feels more authentic, but I'm not sure it was. If I were to decide to purchase the Lionel model I might want to repaint it to fit how the General actually looked. And I'm sure that green was used on locomotives then, but the scheme they have just doesn't seem right.



 Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2012 06:38 pm
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Insecurity
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I believe it may have been black, red, and gold. Mostly black, red second, gold accents. I'm not completely positive, but I think i may have heard something about this? Again, not sure. Sorry mate.

~Insecurity



 Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2012 07:00 pm
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Texas Defender
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Hellcat-

  No doubt the train is depicted with different color schemes by different people. Have you seen this image from http://www.kennesaw.com?

 

http://www.kennesaw.com/images/the-general-bridge.jpg



 Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2012 09:59 pm
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Hellcat
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No, I hadn't seen that image. That adds more to my confusion, I'm afraid, cause it's red and black with yellow and gold detailing. I did find the Unoffical Kennesaw Civil War Museum Online (http://www.locomotivegeneral.com/index.html) after I posted this and the FAQ does say new paint has been applied but not if they've changed the livery from the original.

Insecurity, don't be sorry. You are trying to help.



 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 10:44 am
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Hellcat
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Ok, this makes things even more confusing, http://home.earthlink.net/~khsociety/general/general.pdf. At the top of page 12 is what's claimed to be an early 20th century postcard image of the General on display at Chatanooga's Union Depot. The image is a color image showing a black locomotive with gold trim. Though looking at the tender it (the tender) could be a very dark forest green. I'm undecided if that is actually black with gold trim or so dark a forest green as to look almost black. The cab of the locomotive could also be the same color as the tender if it's a dvery dark forest green as the lighting makes it hard on me to decide the color there. The picture of the General on at the bottom of page 13, appearently showing the General arriving in Kennesaw in 1962, shows the locomotive in the colors it sports today. So that's two different color schemes which takes me back to my original question and also raises a second one. Was the early 20th century photo taken in color or was the color added later and the artist just selected a color scheme.

I know I've looked at color photos from around the turn of the 20th century and they largely look too me like the color was added later, though I know color photography existed at that time. Here this largely looks too natural to my untrained eye to have been painted later. I say largely because I look at the brick work and some times it doesn't seem to jive with the rest of the image as it seems too pastel while other times it seems as natural as the rest.



 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 11:11 am
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Hellcat
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I managed to find this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SXGe9m1lk8. It appears to have the picture from page 12 of the PDF I linked to above, but the picture is in black and white. Again making me ask if that photo was colorized.



 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 01:49 pm
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Hellcat-

  I know that you have been looking at material from the Lionel model train folks, but have you seen this particular site?

1862 General Steam Engine   It shows an image of the: "General" (as in: "Standard") 1862 locomotive of the type that: "The General" was. It says: "All 1862s are painted gray with a red cab and always included the 1862T tender." It also says: "No known variations," but I don't know if that means that the paint scheme was standard on the real locomotives, or just on the Lionel ones. 

  Here is the 1862T tender, which is apparently always green:

http://www.postwarlionel.com/images/1862b.jpg

  This pattern corresponds closely with the one from the Kennesaw folks that I posted earlier, except the boiler in that image appears to be painted black, not gray. Also, in the Lionel version, the headlight casing is painted red.

  I'm not sure if that will help or just cause more confusion, but I'll risk it.  :? Absent a description from someone at that time, or some document that we haven't yet uncovered, you might never know for sure how the actual locomotive was painted in 1862.

Last edited on Fri Jan 11th, 2013 02:27 pm by Texas Defender



 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2013 06:02 pm
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Hellcat
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Yeah, I did manage to find that site, think it was before I found the video I posted. I also found this site, http://local.trainz.com/articles/general.html, which goes into a long history of Lionel and the General. This was actually the version that started the thread, http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-38658&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&CategoryID=175&RailLineID=&CatalogId=. As you can see it's the 2008 version from the previous link. I don't know, that shade of green just seems off to me, the way it looks at Kennesaw is a better scheme. But a very dark forest green where the red is would also work. I mean a different shade of red, something closer to a pink, would be the same as the green on that Lionel page.

I don't know, I'd just like to find something that tells what the original scheme might have been, says the scheme at Kennesaw is a return to the original paint scheme or that it was originally an all black color. But like you say, maybe that doesn't exist. Still I'm gonna keep looking.



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 Posted: Fri Mar 8th, 2013 12:10 pm
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apvkt-

  Feel free to post any links that you are sure would be:"Helpful for this topic."



 Posted: Fri Mar 8th, 2013 02:00 pm
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Hellcat
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Everything about possible paint schemes for The General is helpful to the topic. My last post I posted a link to the reason why I started the thread in the first place. The paint scheme of Lionel's current model just seems wrong.



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