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Francis Joshua of the USS Wabash & USS Nantucket - Help Looking for an individual - Genealogy - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Thu Sep 26th, 2013 10:30 pm
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st helena
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Hi,
I'm new to this Site! and I'm trying to find out any thing more on my wife's Ancestor! his name was "Francis Joshua" born on the Island of St Helena in the South Atlantic Ocean.
I have also the following about him:

Francis Joshua

Place of Birth: St. Helena
Age: 21
Complexion: Swarthy
Occupation: Sailor
Height: 5' 8"
Place of Enlistment: "Wabash"
Date of Enlistment: Jun 19, 1863
Term of Enlistment: 1
Rating: Ordinary Seaman
Detailed Muster Records:
Date Vessel
10/01/1863 Nantucket
01/01/1864 Nantucket
03/31/1864 Nantucket
07/01/1864 Nantucket
09/30/1864 Nantucket

&

Name: Francis Joshua
Event Type: Military
Event Date: Jun 1861
Event Place: Boston
Age: 26
Birth Year (Estimated): 1835
Birthplace: St Helena
Complexion: Indian
Volume: 14
Page: 150
Affiliate Publication Title: Weekly return of enlistments at Naval Rendezvous ("Enlistment Rendezvous"), Jan. 6, 1855-Aug. 8, 1891
Affiliate Publication Number: M1953
Affiliate Film Number: 14
GS Film number: 2381631
Digital Folder Number: 004639542
Image Number: 00188

This is all that I have about him! Why would he enlist on the "Wabash"?? are there any other Information on Francis? Would there be any Ship's Crew's List for the above Ship's Please?? for when he was on it!!
The enclosed Attachment you will see that "Francis Joshua" is about the 3rd one down!
I hope some one help me Please? in the brick-wall I am with him!
Thank You for any Help!

Attachment: Francis Joshua in 1861 - Copy.jpg (Downloaded 25 times)



 Posted: Thu Sep 26th, 2013 10:44 pm
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Hellcat
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The only thing I can come up with for the Wabash enlistment is either a re-enlistment or an impressment.



 Posted: Thu Sep 26th, 2013 11:41 pm
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Texas Defender
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st helena-

  Based on the information you provided above, the sailor enlisted on the USS WABASH in June of 1863. The WABASH was a steam screw frigate displacing 4808 tons, and carrying 50 guns. She was commissioned in 1856.

  Your daily muster records show that by October 1st of 1863, the sailor was on the USS NANTUCKET. The NANTUCKET was a very different kind of ship, a coastal monitor. She displaced 1875 tons and carried two guns. She was commissioned in 1863. Your muster records show that the sailor was still on the NANTUCKET on September 30 of 1864.

  More information on the ships and what they did during this timeframe is available online. Where the sailor was after September of 1864 I cannot say at present. Quite possibly, he remained on the NANTUCKET until the war ended in the following year. It is also possible that he left in 1864, since your information indicates that he enlisted for one year.

  His occupation is listed as: "Sailor," so apparently he had some experience before the war began. I don't know if he was a U.S. citizen or stayed in the U.S. after the war. You might try checking the U.S. Census records, beginning with 1870. You might also try checking obituaries of his known relatives, and trying to backtrack them to him.

Last edited on Fri Sep 27th, 2013 12:26 am by Texas Defender



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 03:49 am
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Hellcat
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TD, you referring to DANFS when you say information on the ships can be found online? Was looking at the DANFS entry on the Wabash earlier. Prefer going through Haze Gray and Underway over the Naval History and Heritage Command to get to DANFS entries, but the latter does do them alphabetically instead of by type so it can be faster tog that route. But then you run into the whole multiple ships of the same name and if you're not sure which order then you gotta play a little.

Edit: on topic, you might want to try checking this page, http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/FAQ-records.htm. I will give you info on contact info for deck logs/ship records and muster rolls/crew lists.

Last edited on Fri Sep 27th, 2013 03:56 am by Hellcat



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 05:11 am
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Texas Defender
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Hellcat-

  The sources you mentioned are quite good for getting info on U.S. Navy ships, but there are many others, including the much maligned Wikipedia. Taking the case of the USS WABASH as an example:

USS Wabash (1855) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Using DANFS as a source)

  And for some pictures:

USN Ships--USS WABASH (1856-1912) (Naval Historical Center)

  And this site lists some of the crew members of the WABASH:

Sailors of the USS Wabash - Historical Civil War Records

  I didn't include it before because the site is mostly concerned with black sailors, and the original posting says that Francis Joshua was Indian.

 

Last edited on Fri Sep 27th, 2013 05:31 am by Texas Defender



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 02:17 pm
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st helena
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Hi,
To Texas Defender, and All, Thank you very much for All your Kind Help!
When it said that Francis Joshua was Indian? this is because he was from the Island of St Helena, which is in the South Atlantic Ocean. A lot of the native people that lived on St Helena up to the American Civil War! were slaves that belonged to the East India Company, and were freed in 1834.
The East India Company Slaves came from, Africa, India, Madagascar, China, some American lived there and married some of the Locals! plus some people from South Africa, like the Boer's from the 1899-1902 Boer War! were kepted there during the Boer War! Some of the men were fishermen! like my late father-in-law! and my wife's ancestors! some of them were Whaler's! They were a mixed coloured people!
They are a great people to know! my late Father-in-law was some time's mistaken for a Native American!! Thank You All !



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 02:31 pm
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st helena
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Hi,
That Web page Address you gave me "Hellcat" came back as can't be Found??



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 02:38 pm
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st helena
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Hi Texas Defender,
That Web Site "Sailors of the Wabash", Francis Joshua is not down on that list?? Would there be another ship by the Name of "Wabash" that he may have been on? and I get in touch with some one on that web site Please??

Thank You.



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 03:50 pm
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st helena-

   I don't know of any U.S. Navy ship called the WABASH serving in 1863 other than the frigate previously referred to. I am confident that Francis Joshua joined the Navy on that ship.

   I checked the list of black (or presumably black) sailors on the: 'Sailors of the WABASH" site. While some other sailors signed up on 19 June 1863 (See Page 5), Francis Joshua isn't listed as one of them. Apparently, those present didn't classify him as: "Colored." Of course, he might have been mixed race.

   As for the website that includes the WABASH sailors, it is: http://www.findthedata.org . You can go to the homepage and join the site. That might be one way to contact the webmasters. Farther down on the homepage is a link that says: "Contact Us." You might also take a shot at that.



 Posted: Fri Sep 27th, 2013 08:05 pm
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Hellcat
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According to DANFS there were four ships named Wabash. http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/w1-list.htm However, only the first Wabash served in the Civil War. Wabash II was originally completed in 1900 as the freighter Wartburg in Newcastle-on-Tyne, England for a German company and taken over by the US in 1917 as the SS Seneca and renamed USS Wabash in 1918. Wabash III was laid down in June '42 and commissioned in May '43 and was a gas tanker(AOG). Wabash IV was laid down in January 1970 and commissioned in November 1971 as a replenishment oiler (AOR).

Ok, grabbing off NavSource
USS Wabash http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/86/86002.htm
ID 1824 USS Wabash http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/171824.htm
T-AOG-4 USNS Wabash (the ex AOG-4 USS Wabash)http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/20/2004.htm
AOR-5 USS Wabash http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/21/2105.htm



 Posted: Sat Sep 28th, 2013 11:33 am
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st helena
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Hi All,
I also find the following! I don't know IF it is the same Person??:

:?
Francis Joshua:
Confederate Sailor
Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Key Facts
Related
Key Facts
Enlistment Information
Side
Confederate
Date Enlisted: 09/06/1864
Place of Enlistment: New York
Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Vessels:
CSS Arkansas
USS Aroostook

Personal Information
Age: 20
Complexion: Negro
Height: 5'10"
Birth State: New York
Birth City Suffolk, L.I.
Vessel Report Dates
Vessel that sailor was on when muster roll was filled out: Date of muster roll:
Arkansas: 1865-06-23
Arkansas: 1865-06-30
Aroostook: 1864-12-31
Aroostook: 1865-09-23

I wonder IF it is the same Person????? What do you think??



 Posted: Sat Sep 28th, 2013 01:33 pm
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st helena-

  It is possible that it was the same person, because the data on the first Francis Joshua is contradictory. The first Francis Joshua was born about 1835 or about 1842, depending on which record you believe. The second was born about 1844. The first was described as Indian, and the second as Negro. The first was 5'8", and the second was 5'10". The first enlisted in Boston, and the second in NYC. The first was born on St. Helena, and the second on Long Island, NY. They seem to be different, but you have to allow for the possibility that they are the same if you believe that the first Francis Joshua was only 21 and not 26 when he signed up. If they are the same, then either there was some lying or some sloppy bookkeeping going on ( Or both). It seems unlikely that there were two different Francis Joshuas from St. Helena that were there.

  I would also state that the data for the "second" Francis Joshua makes no sense at all. I believe that a major screwup has happened with this record, and that this Francis Joshua was NEVER a Confederate sailor.

  The "second" Francis Joshua could not have served on the CSS ARKANSAS in 1865, because that ship was destroyed in 1862. He also would not have enlisted in the Confederate Navy in NYC in 1864.

CSS Arkansas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   I believe that the second sailor served on the USS ARKANSAS in 1865, and that someone has confused a Confederate ship with a Union one. I would also point out that the USS ARKANSAS was decommissioned on 30 June 1865, which is the same date as one of the muster records attributed to the: "CSS ARKANSAS.".

USS Arkansas (1863) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited on Sat Sep 28th, 2013 05:04 pm by Texas Defender



 Posted: Sun Sep 29th, 2013 01:14 am
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Hellcat
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I'm wishing right now CWSSS had a option it doesn't seem to have, choosing to search for Confederate sailors and ships. I was checking it earlier. I found the data st Helena posted at the start of their initial post and then I tried four things. First I tried looking up the Wabash. Francis Joshua was not listed among it's crew. Then I tried the USS Arkansas. Again no mention of the name in the crew. Then I tried the Nantucket and his name was there. And finally I tried looking up by country and of course Francis Joshua was among the sailors from St. Helena listed.

Now we already know from the initial post that he served aboard the Nantucket But here's the rub, that was 1863 and 1864. Like TD said, there's a little bit of contradictory information in that first post. Namely his age. The first record in st helena's initial post has him enlisting aboard Wabash at age 21 in June 1863. But the second record has him born in 1835 and it appears enlisting in Boston in 1861 at age 26. If he's 21 in 1863 then his date of birth should be sometime in 1842. TD gives a reasoning for this discrepancy, but if this is the same person then what were they doing between Boston 1861 and Wabash 1863?

And what about USS Arkansas. As TD says, CSS Arkansas is gone after August 1862, so it has to be USS Arkansas. The Arkansas had a complement of 88, but the CWSSS lists 92 crew members. This makes sense as during the war ships would have likely had sailors come and go. Unfortunately some of the names are given two or more times (for instance Daniel Carroll is listed six times and while Edward Butterfield is listed twice). We eliminate multiple listings and not only will we be under 92 hits for the ship, we'll be under the compliment of 88. And even then we could have someone who was at one time a member of the crew who wasn't listed.

As I was typing this I looked up the USS Aroostook, again no mention of Francis Joshua. But as I was trying to say above, he could have served aboard the ship and CWSSS doesn't list him.



 Posted: Sun Sep 29th, 2013 08:41 am
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st helena
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Hi Hellcat!,
Thank You! and every one for trying to make this out! and for taking time to do it!
Thank You All Very Much!

From St Helena!
:):)



 Posted: Mon Sep 30th, 2013 08:52 pm
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Hellcat
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Don't know what bearing this has on the subject, but I decided to check the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion
for a possible crew roster for the Wabash. Didn't have high expectations and in the volume I looked in (Series I Volume XIV) I wasn't surprised to not see one. But I did find out that as of June 19, 1863 Wabash was the flagship of the South Atlantic Blockading Squadron (http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=Wabash;rgn=full%20text;idno=ofre0014;didno=ofre0014;view=image;seq=0294). The Wikipedia article does put Du Pont as flag officer aboard the Wabash from 1861 to 1862, but if you scroll to page 265 and finish the letter of June, 19, 1863 you'll see it's signed by Du Pont, just like the letter of June 17th. Which puts Du Pont still on Wabash as of June 19, 1863.

But skipping ahead to page 305 there's a letter from July 1st putting Du Pont still on Wabash. This letter is important not for Du Pont but for positioning of blockade ships. We've got Wabash in Port Royal and Nantucket in Stono. So at a point between the 1863 enlistment of Francis Joshua and the records of his first muster roll aboard Nantucket we see where the two ships were located.

I'll see if I can' find where Nantucket was October 1, 1863, or there about.

Last edited on Mon Sep 30th, 2013 08:53 pm by Hellcat



 Posted: Tue Oct 1st, 2013 12:21 am
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st helena
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Hi Hellcat!,
Many thanks for all that checking out of those Records! where there any Maps Please? showing the Positions of the Ships Please? :)I would like to see the Places where the ships were at during the Civil War! Please!
I found the following photo on a web-site, it is of a Minstrel Band on deck of the USS.Wabash, when looking at the Minstrels! the 2nd man from the left looks like a man from St Helena, he is playing a Banjo, you will find a lot from St Helena were Francis Joshua comes from like playing there music like this! he looks very like, like a "saint" that is what they are called today! were there's music, you will mostly find a "saint"!! and its a great Photo! from the Civil War! I'm hoping to get his Civil War Records in a month or two!

Thanks Again!

Attachment: Civil War Minstrel on board the USS Wabash 1863.jpg (Downloaded 7 times)



 Posted: Tue Oct 1st, 2013 01:00 am
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Ok, same volume as my last post, page 681 (http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;q1=Nantucket;rgn=full%20text;idno=ofre0014;didno=ofre0014;view=image;seq=0721). It's letter from Commander J. C. Beaumont to Rear Admiral Dahlgren reporting on damage the Nantucket sustained in July, 1863. The letter is dated September 29, 1863 and places the Nantucket at Wassaw Sound, Georgia. So far that's as near to October 1st as I can get.

As for the maps, I'm not sure how much of a help I can offer you there. I know there's a book of maps that goes with The War of the Rebellion: a Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. I know because I own a copy of it. I'm not sure if it includes maps from the sister series pertaining to the navies. But I'm going through Cornell's Making of America section of their online library for both The War of the Rebellion: a Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. and the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion. Maps and illustrations exist in there but I can't say on which pages when I'm doing simple searches.

Keep in mind Cornell scanned the pages from both series and posted them up. And I'm willing to bet they also sat down and typed out every little word for the search function. It's easier and faster to bring up the search function and type in keywords than it is to go through all thirty volumes of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion
(two series published from 1894 to 1922; 27 volumes in the first series and 3 volumes in the second). And The War of the Rebellion is even larger (seventy volumes in four series published from 1880 to 1901; 53 in series I, 8 in series II, 6 in series III, and 4 in series IV). Thankfully both fall in the public domain.

Right now the best I can be sure I can do is to post what locations are mentioned in letters, if I can find maps in the official records I'll try to post them.



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