Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


Civil War engagement in NY? - General Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sat Aug 26th, 2006 05:02 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
VirtualCivilWar
Member - Photographer


Joined: Wed Feb 8th, 2006
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 57
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I have a question.  Yesterday, in the mail, I received a cool Civil War facts slider from the CWPT.  It shows a ton of information on it, date of battle, commanders, losses, etc.  On the back of it is has a section called, "Total number of engagemetns in each of the following states and territories during the War"  I found a few things interesting....Virginia had 519 engagements on her soil, while the next largest number of battles was in Tennessee with 298!  But the one that confuses me is that it says that NY had one engagement on her soil.  Does anyone know anything about this?  Are they talking about the draft riot?  Please let me know, I'm very curious.  Thanks!

Mike

http://www.virtualcivilwar.com

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2006 05:02 pm by VirtualCivilWar



 Posted: Sun Aug 27th, 2006 02:54 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

VCW -

I'm 99% sure there were no land engagements, at least not in the way I'd use the word. I guess it's possible they mean the draft riots. Another possibility -

"One daring raider, Tallahassee, sank a schooner off New Jersey, then sailed into New York Harbor. An unsuspecting and unobservant harbor pilot, hustling for a job, came aboard, and was astonished to find the Confederate flag flying. The Tallahassee sank 6 ships in 6 hours outside New York before moving north to attack coastal and transatlantic trading vessels."



 Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2006 02:25 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
David White
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 909
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Wow, good information about the Tallahassee Javal I never heard of that.  My guess they are talking about the riots too but to check the Tallahassee theory, does the thing the CWPT sent have any battle in Maine becasue "Savez" Read sailed into Portland, Maine one day and even fired his guns I believe?

Last edited on Mon Aug 28th, 2006 02:25 pm by David White



 Posted: Thu Jan 4th, 2007 06:46 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
Hellcat
Root Beer Lover


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 901
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I've actually read about the Battle of Portland Harbor something like three or four years ago. Extremely minor as far as the war goes, but a big surprise to learn of more than just the Raid on St. Albans, VT taking place in New England.



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 12:07 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Could they be referring to the November 1864 plot to reap havoc by torching buildings in New York City, such as an art museum? In this plot Confederates,  who were sent to operate raids out of Canada by Jefferson Davis, planned to burn down several buildings in the city. They did, in fact, try to carry out this plan, but had to race back to Canada to avoid capture after their plan failed when alert police and firemen put out the fires.

One did get caught...Robert Cobb Kennedy. He was captured, tried and actually executed by hanging.  I do not know if this event counts as an engagement or battle as the words might be traditionally defined. Perhaps it is best called a "raid." It might even be called "terrorism" by some definitions or just malicious mischief.



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 03:24 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Hellcat
Root Beer Lover


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 901
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I'm not sure that's what they mean, Cleburne. I just did something I should have done in my initial post, checked my books. Got a copy of The Civil War Handbook by William H. Price that lists engagements by state and territory. New York is listed as having one engagement in 1863, which the draft riots would fit the time period.



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 05:15 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

That might be the key Cleburne and Hellcat. Don't have such a list, but am aware of listings for civil war battles in Minnesota and the Dakota Territory which could only refer to "campaigns" following the Sioux uprising in '62. Seems the definition is a bit loose in that any fracas in which US troops were involved to any degree is considered worthy of listing as an engagement. I suppose the Sand Creek Massacre might be included, as well, although Chivington was state militia, so maybe not.

Ole



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 09:25 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Ole I have seen Sand Creek included in the list of Civil War "battle" 



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 02:31 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Thanks Susan:

I stand corrected. There were either some US troops in there or Chivington's group was considered in the service of the government (at least by the folks that made that list).:?

Ole



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 03:23 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Ole I also saw a massacre  in Idaho on the list of Civil War battles .  The interesting thing is the list did not include the Battle of Pichao Pass in Arizona 1863 listed . 



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 06:01 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Susan, I can understand the Idaho incident, but not the omission of the Arizona engagement. Presumably, there were no US sponsored troops there or the author of your list missed it.:shock:

Ole



 Posted: Sun Jan 7th, 2007 06:46 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

The battle of Pechaco Pass was fought between troops from the Drum Barrackshere in Wilmington California  and Confederates out of Tucson Arizona.  They reenact it every year coming up soon I think in February.  The troops were Colonel Carleton nad the California Column.  They went on up to Fort Union where Carleton took command.  Carleton shows up again later in the war , a little inccident called the Long March , dealing with the Navajos and Kit Carson . 

I see Carleton's picture once a week when I give tours at the Drum Barracks.  He was our first commander. 



 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 01:47 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I don't have an official list of battles or engagements so I'd like to know if those of you who do have such a list would enlighten me as to what is considered the absolute "last battle of the US Civil War." Some places I have read that it is the Battle at Palmito Ranch in Texas on May 12 and 13, 1865.

But I have also read in other places the last engagement was in the Bering Sea from 22 to 28 June 1865 when the crew of the Confederate commercial raider ship CSS Shenandoah, unaware that the war had ended,  attacked nearly two dozen whaling ships owned by American interests.

Does this last episode count as an "engagement" and is it listed on official lists of Civil War battles, engagements and skirmishes or is it just considered to be an aberration or curiosity being that the war was long over, but the participants just didn't know? 

Last edited on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 02:38 am by CleburneFan



 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 07:28 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
Hellcat
Root Beer Lover


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 901
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

If the list I have actually gave a date for the battles in the list, then I'd try to do that for ya, Cleburne. However, it gives a list of battles per state by year and then a supposed grand total for the war. I.E. you look up Virginia and it claims 30 for 1861, 40 for 1862, 116 for 1863, 205 for 1864, 28 for 1865, and a total of 519. 

Now the Civil War Handbook does include a chronology of battles that allows you to check losses for both sides by battle. However, it's largely geared towards Union forces as it lists KIA, wounded MIA, and total of all thee for the Union. For the Confederates it merely lists a total number of losses. The last battle it lists is Fort Blakely, Alabama, then lists the surrendering of six Confederate generals and their armies starting with Lee.

Like you, I have heard of Palmito Ranch as the last battle. And I've also read about the CSS Shenandoah and her adventures. In fact the CSS Shenandoah is the last regular "chapter" in Philip Van Doren Stern's Secret Missions of the Civil War, or at least the last that appeared in the 1990 edition. I say chapter for lack of a better word as the book is broken down by year with so many first hand accounts given for each year. The last chapter, on cryptology (actually it says Codes and Ciphers in the Civil War), is more of an appendix to the book. But in both the Battle of Palmito Ranch and the Shenandoah's activites in the Bering Straight cases we are faced with activities occuring after April 9, 1865 when the Handbook's timeline lists the last battle.

By now you will have already noted that in the first paragraph I emphasized supposed. This is because I have to question whether or not the list is just for land engagements, and if some were left out. The only copyright/publishing date I can find in my copy of the Handbook is 1961, but even at that time I'd have thought they'd have taken note of any and all battles and/or engagements and covered them. Checking the chronology alone certainly questions that as some battles, such as Big Bethel in 1861 and Roanoke Island in 1862 are not listed. That makes sense as to chronologically list all battles would doubtlesly fill the entire book, and probably then some (it's only seventy-two pages total). Meaning that you probably have to rely more on the list of battles per state.

Ah, but the rub seems to be as I already said, they might only be looking at land battles. The Shenandoah certainly isn't listed, as already mentioned above. But then in the chronology, the Monitor and the Virginia are not listed, nor is the Battle of Mobile Bay, or the battle between the Kearsarge and the Alabama. I know of a battle that occured in Portland, Maine, that was also naval and is also not listed. Maine is not listed in the Handbook as seeing any battles and/or engagements. And as it is a list of battles and/or engagements by state, France is obviously not listed. But it does raise the question of if naval battles were excluded from the list. Seems likely they were from the chronology.

 

Last edited on Tue Jan 9th, 2007 07:34 am by Hellcat



 Posted: Tue Jan 9th, 2007 04:02 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Hellcat:

The CSS Shenandoah incident is the entire subject of a recent book called, I believe, The Last Shot. Haven't picked it up. Not being a deep-water navy enthusiast, can't see buying a book on an after-hours raid by a single Confederate Raider.

Ole



 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 06:46 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
Hellcat
Root Beer Lover


Joined: Tue Nov 15th, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 901
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I'll have to see if I can find that book, ole. The navies of the war intrest me, probably because we tend to focus more on the armies. Only natural considering how important to the war the armies and their battles were.



 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 02:19 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
David White
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 909
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

There is also another recent book on the CSS Shennadoah by Tom Chaffin (author of the most recent Fremont biography) called Sea of Gray that came out around the time of The Last Shot too.



 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 02:52 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

From what I have read the Battle of Palmetto Ranch down in Texas was the last LAND battle of the war.  The Shenandoah was the last SEA battle. 

Ole check out some of the Sea battles they are really interesting.  Ed Cotham has a book called the Battle for the Bay on the Battle of Mobile bay that is really good.  He also has one on Sabine Pass.  We had him as a speaker at the West Coast Round Table conference a year ago.  Not only was he interesting he was an entertaining speaker.  His books read as entertaining and enligthening as he was.  He even did a power point presentation with little cannons firing from real pictures . 

Farragut and the Battle of Moble is so interesting just  because of the charachter of Farragut .  What an interesting man .  Our first Admiral. 



 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 04:03 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
19th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Susan:

So far I've steered clear of the deep-water navy. I know me: If I started, I'd get interested; then I'd have to buy lots of books reading only a few; then my time would be divided again. Time to get my affairs in order by reading the gooks I have. Then I might consider naval history of the WBTS.

Ole



 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:18 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
20th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

susansweet wrote:
Farragut and the Battle of Moble is so interesting just  because of the charachter of Farragut .  What an interesting man .  Our first Admiral. 

One of the things I love about Farragut is the fact that he was only about twelve in the War of 1812 but served on a US warship!! I think his uncle was on board, but even so, such a thing could never happen in our navy today. 

Last edited on Fri Jan 12th, 2007 05:29 pm by CleburneFan



 Current time is 05:39 pmPage:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.4374 seconds (7% database + 93% PHP). 27 queries executed.