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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Genealogy > Letters, Diaries and Journals > The Tables were Turned at Gettysburg |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Genealogy > Letters, Diaries and Journals > The Tables were Turned at Gettysburg |
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| The Tables were Turned at Gettysburg | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:38 am |
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1st Post |
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Hellcat Person 
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Ok, so we all know about the Battle of Gettysburg. The Army of Northern Virginia and the Army of the Potomac clashed at the town of Gettysburg from July 1st to July 3rd of 1863 with Gen. Meade's army being the victor. But for the wounded on the field there was a third and unwelcome "army" at Gettysburg. I only recently learned of this army in Michael Sanders's More Strange Tales of the Civil War. In the book Sanders reprints the words of one Lt. Barzilia (Berzila) Inman of the 118th Pennsylvania Volunteers. Inman, who served in Company F of the regiment, was injured on the second day of fighting at the Wheatfield and would not be removed from the field until the July 4th. On the night of the second he encoutered the third army, a group of hogs who ended up feeding on the wounded and the dead. That night a number of stray hogs came to where I lay and commenced rooting and tearing at the dead men around me. Finally one fellow that in the darkness looked of enormous size approached and attempted to poke me---grunting loudly the while. Several others also came up, when waiting my chance, I jammed my sword into his belly, which made him set up a prolonged, sharp cry. By constant vigilance and keeping from sleeping I contrived to fight the mosters off till daylight. To be honest, until I picked up this book I'd never before given thought to what the wounded and the dying had to face on a battlefield beyond fellow soldiers. And maybe buzzards. Now I'm not sure I won't look at the varios battles and wonder what additional "army" visited the field once the fighting died down there. Last edited on Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:56 am by Hellcat |
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 05:11 am |
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2nd Post |
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Kentucky_Orphan Member 
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I was unaware,untill this post Hellcat, of this instance myself. I do know that many wonded at the wilderness in '64 were burned alive when the underbrush caught fire. There are many horrible accounts I have read or seen that details those poor mens fate. Some commited suicide rather than be engulfed in flames, while others were not spared such a painless fate. Men on both sides recalled the terrible screaming heard that night after the battle coming from the wounded as they desperatley tried to crawl away and escape or were engulfed in flames. Just thinking of it gives me the chills, and the only thing I can compare it to is seeing those poor souls leaping from the WTC to escape the flames. Too often we get caught up in the pomp and chivalrous nature of that age, and forget those words uttered by William T. Sherman. War is indeed hell.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 06:30 am |
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3rd Post |
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Hellcat Person
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I think that's what's really nice about this section of the forums, we can be reminded that "it is all hell." Without any veterans around to tell us of their experinces in the war, we're probably a lot more likely to romanticize the war. But being able to look at the letters and writings of the men, and women, during the war lets us see what life actually was like. And then there are the little things like this or the accounts of those poor souls being burned alive at the Wilderness that really help to force us to imagine what the war must really have been like.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 01:40 pm |
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4th Post |
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calcav Member
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Walking the quiet paths and grassy fields of Shiloh it is difficult to imagine the horrors that occured the evening of April 6th, 1862. Most of the wounded spent the night where they fell, robbed of any rest by a cold rain that began to fall around midnight. Those that found shelter were awakened by shells fired at ten minute intervals by the gunboat Tyler until midnight ,when it was relieved by the Lexington that continued the harrasing fire at 15 minute intervals. During the fighting in the area known as the Hornet's Nest the woods around the 44th Indiana caught fire and many of the wounded were unable to crawl away. Some men, wounded and horribly burned, waited through the night for relief that did not come. A young Confederate soldier was woken from a sound sleep to stand picket duty and was horrified at the scene he found under the stormy sky, ""Vivid flashings of lightning rent the heavens and...sickening sights fell before my eyes...I saw a large piece of ground literaly covered with dead heaped and piled on each other. I shut my eyes upon the sickening sight...Through the dark I heard the sound of hogs...quarreling over their carnival feast."
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:27 pm |
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5th Post |
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David White Member 
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There is a famous Gardner photo of the battle aftermath showing the effects of the hogs. Often, uninformed authors attribute the ghastly sight to artillery fire but it was the hogs. The photo may be seen here and it is also mislabeled as artillery damage by the webmaster there: http://www.mikelynaugh.com/VirtualCivilWar/New/Originals2/pages/Disembowelled.html
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 06:32 pm |
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6th Post |
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Doc C Member 
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There's numerous reports of soldiers being attacked by hogs while laying there wounded. In addition, this "3rd army" were often present near hospitals feeding on the discarded amputated limbs. (Kind of makes you wish that you shouldn't have had that extra piece of Jimmy Dean's sausage this morning). In terms of period photos of the dead, look closely, for a number of them have their jackets unbottoned - many a wounded individual would look to see where the wound was knowing if it was an abdominal one, there was little hope for them. Also, jackets could be open from the postmortem bloating which occurred. Again as previously stated, what's the goal of war - to kill the other person, to me nothing chivalrous about that. Doc C
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 08:35 pm |
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7th Post |
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ole Member 
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Often, uninformed authors attribute the ghastly sight to artillery fire but it was the hogs. David: How did you become convinced that the damage was not done by artillery? Ole
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 10:18 pm |
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8th Post |
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susansweet Member 
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Tom good discription o the battlefield at Shiloh. The thing that amazes me the most about the battlefields I have visited is how peaceful they are now. I have been to so many of them at times when there is no one else there but me many times. It is so quiet and peaceful. I always reflected that this was such a beautiful place now where such horrible actions took place 140 years or so ago. I have read in a couple of books about the hogs .
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 12:55 am |
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9th Post |
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Johnny Huma Johnny Huma 
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On one of my many tours of Gettysburg a guide had showed us a spot there in what was called "No Man's Land" the area between Seminary Ridge and Cemetery Hill..This area now has parking lots and houses built where none stood before..Rock Creek flowed through this area and on July 4th when the rains came there were a lot of wounded lying near the creek bed which gave cover to the area of fire above them. Most of these men could not be moved and drowned as the creek rose with the rains. The bodies floated downstream and under a bridge which actually damed up with the bodies and blocking the flow of water..Imagine lying there not being able to move and know that the end is coming by way of drowning and not being able to do anything about it..Sad..The suffering from their wounds were not enough..Maybe some actually welcomed death...These types of things that happened can only be seen in the mind now..I am sure it was a horrible sight for the ones that had to clean the bodies out of these places along with the smells of it all..Then imagine after the battle all the people who actually came to Gettysburg to claim bodies and to help with the aftermath which put a much larger burden on the town than the battle itself. What a nightmare war is...As we all often daydream about what it was like and tell ourselves I would love to have been there and seen it all I really think we would not.. If we had that one chance to go back in time and to expierience it all on our own and be a part of it I think we would hesitate to walk through that time portal knowing the horror on the other side of it... Huma
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 01:33 am |
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10th Post |
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Doc C Member
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Ole I'm not a forensic pathologist so really can't tell in the photo if the soldier was a victim of cannon fire or hogs. Could be both. Even if he wasn't victimized by ferrel hogs, they're numerous accounts in the literature of such attacks by these hogs. Just ran across the book, The Hogs of Cold Harbor: The Civil War Saga of Private Johnny Hess, CSA (Paperback) by Richard Lee Fulgham during an internet search. Will have to get it. Has anyone read this? Doc C
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 04:00 am |
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11th Post |
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Johan Steele Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352 
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In the accounts of the 22 May 1863 Assault of Vicksburg there are refrences to fire ants and the torture they inflicted upon the wounded caught between the lines. Hogs, ants and the human vermin that often infected a field of battle after the battle had moved on were all quite grisly and terrifying to those helpless wounded. War is all hell.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 04:33 am |
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12th Post |
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ole Member
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It was only a few years ago when a good buddy brought to my attention the feral hogs. It was logical. Of course the overnight wounded were in peril -- on almost any rural battlefield in the south. In the rural areas, you turned the hogs, and sometimes cattle, out to feed on mast and whatever. Fences were to keep them out of your garden. Hogs were particularly well adapted to live in the woods without investment in feed. I'll not object to the idea that hogs were present at Gettysburg, but the style of farming there precludes that feral hogs were a major presence. I'd welcome an opposing view to adjust my perception. Ole
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 07:01 am |
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13th Post |
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Hellcat Person
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Doc C wrote: Again as previously stated, what's the goal of war - to kill the other person, to me nothing chivalrous about that. I've got to disagree with you a little there, Doc. The goal of war is to win, the goal of the soldiers actually fighting the war is to kill the other person. To the folks well out of the danger zone, their looking not at having to kill anyone. Rather, their looking at who is being killed, how much territory their side has won or lost, and whether or not their going to win. The men actually doing the fighting are the ones who truely worry about kill or be killed. ole wrote:
I don't know how true it is and I don't know if it would change your prespective or not, Ole, but I saw something talking about hogzilla and whether or not the monster hog could have been real or not. Don't recall if it was 2005 or spring 2006 but I think it was either on the National Geographic channel or one of the Discovery channels. Anyway, they had someone on there that said of all the animals man has domesticated hogs are the ones to become feral in the shortest amount of time once in the wild. Don't recall how long it was, think a matter of weeks but I don't know. Now pertaining to Gettysburg, unless the hogs Lt. Inman described had been on the run for a while it's unlikely they were feral. More likely they had been set free during the battle itself. Last edited on Sat Jan 13th, 2007 07:09 am by Hellcat |
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 03:56 pm |
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14th Post |
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Johnny Huma Johnny Huma
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A great book on the aftermath and wounded at Gettysburg is "Debris of Battle" by Gerard A Patterson. It is a book that will leave you with a real good mental vision of what happened after the Armies left the field. How this small town already in great turmoil had to come to grips with the aftermath of battle and of all the people converging on the town who wanted to help but also added to the already great shortages that they were dealing with. How camp Letterman came about and how the cleanup of the bodies and animals were handled..Great reading... Huma
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 04:55 pm |
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15th Post |
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ole Member
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I've got to disagree with you a little there, Doc. The goal of war is to win, the goal of the soldiers actually fighting the war is to kill the other person. I'll take that a little further Hellcat. The goal of war is to make the other side give up (OK, win.). Ideally and theoretically, that can be accomplished by maneuvering the opposing army out of positions you would like to have and from which you can so threaten the capital and that it capitulates. That's the ideal; I don't believe it ever happened. It usually happens that to maneuver an opposing army you must kill enough to make the remainder move. I did see that segment on hogzilla. Without acknowledging truth or fiction. I believe it's possible. I've heard it predicted that if humans suddenly disappeared, the only domestic animals surviving would be pigs and cats -- and, to a degree, mongrel dogs. The cat can revert to feral within days (assuming it hasn't been declawed), but it doesn't change its appearance. The pig changes during its lifetime. The first litter born in the wild closely resembles the razorback. The third generation is totally wild. Don't know how that is, but that's essentially the way it goes. A pedigreed pair of Durocs will have wild boars as grandchildren. I'll now modify my statement on hogs at Gettysburg. Even the domesticated hog is opportunistic and omnivorous. Given that many were probably turned loose in the passage of troops, it is quite possible that hog predation was there. Ole Last edited on Sat Jan 13th, 2007 04:57 pm by ole |
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 09:45 pm |
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16th Post |
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calcav Member
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I'll take that a little further Hellcat. The goal of war is to make the other side give up (OK, win.). The definition that has always stuck with me; "War is the achievement of political goals through sustained controlled violence." Ole makes a good point concerning how livestock was allowed to roam free. In the community around Shiloh Church all of the fields were bordered with split rail fences to keep the hogs and cattle out of the crops.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 10:11 pm |
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17th Post |
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Johan Steele Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352
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"Chase em till you catch em and whip em till they run again." A soldier's view of the purpose of War. "I never wear blue; I saw too much of it running in the late unpleasentness." Answer "Yup, we ran all the way to Appomatox; then we stopped."
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2007 12:17 am |
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18th Post |
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CleburneFan Member 
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Revisiting the original topic of this thread, an excellent book on the aftermath of the Battle of Gettysburg and its impact on the town and surrounding areas is titled "After the Smoke Cleared at Gettysburg" by George Sheldon, Cumberland House Publishing, 2003, $16.95. It also discusses the horrific experiences of the wounded including frying in the July sun, soaking in drowning rain, maggott-infected wounds (which actually helped some wounds"), attacks by insects, flies, lice and worms, and lack of water to quench thrist or clean wounds. Often infections would set in before the wounded were moved or before a surgeon could treat the wounds. The book I mention above does say the grotesque injury on one photo when studied by recent research,"...suggests that the corpse attracted wild hogs." I did read somewhere a discussion of whether the wounded in one of the famous after-battle photos show an actual battle injury or additional injury from hogs. I can also imagine that wounded who were left a day or two might have been attacked by crows and buzzards as well as hogs or even packs of dogs who were disoriented by the, noise, confusion and odor of battle. That is just my supposition. I have never read any researcher say that is a fact. Leafing through the book I mention above, I can't find the spot that mentions how many horses and mules were killed at Gettysburg, but the number is nothing short of astounding. Disposal of these poor animals was a major burden on the people of Gettysburg. Most of them were burned. The book says a pall of death and decaying animals and deceased soldiers hung over the town for days and days. A local, Nellie Auginbach, is quoted as saying, "We couldn't open our windows for weeks because of the stench." [Page 211.] Though Gettysburg had an incomprehensively terrible situation after the battle, other places certainly must have faced similarly daunting horrors such as Cold Harbor, Shiloh and Antietam.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2007 02:47 pm |
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19th Post |
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David White Member
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Ole: William A. Frassantino's Gettysburg: A Journey in Time is where I read it, he's no pathologist like Doc and neither am I but that fellow is opened up pretty good and not shredded like an artillery shell exploding would probably do. Frassantino has a good explanation and I buy it. Johann: Regarding: In the accounts of the 22 May 1863 Assault of Vicksburg there are refrences to fire ants and the torture they inflicted upon the wounded caught between the lines. I don't doubt that ants were an issue but they were not Fire Ants, which were introduced to this country from Brazil when they came aboard ships to Mobile in the 1930s. As a kid in the late 50s and early 60s we used to have huge red and black ants here in Texas the fire ants made it here by the 70s and killed off all the colonies of those big ants. As far as I know they are extinct thanks to those illegal immigrants from Brazil that deserve extinction and are now everywhere, sort of the Kudzu of the insect world.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2007 04:37 pm |
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20th Post |
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susansweet Member
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David , thank you I knew I had read about the wound being from a pig somewhere and for the life of me could not remember where I had read it. It was Frassantino . A
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